Serious PO4 problems. Help!

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by norg., Sep 20, 2012.

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  1. norg.

    norg. Kole Tang

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    Ive been using it for around 4 months now. Ill be doing the bleach, but 4 months seems way too fast for PO4 levels to raise when its used for just mixing salt. More than a couple hundred gallons of water have passed through this container, but to be at .24PPM PO4 after that seems weird... I tested with a Hanna checker Phosphorous meter, which is more accurate than the PO4 meter.
     
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  3. ingtar_shinowa

    ingtar_shinowa Giant Squid

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    I'd blame Chris. He did something while he was there.
     
  4. Biocube

    Biocube Giant Squid

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    Guilty! ::)::)::)
     
  5. dowtish

    dowtish Horrid Stonefish

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    Run 2 tests back to back, just to make sure you arent getting a crazy reading.
     
  6. norg.

    norg. Kole Tang

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    Already did. Its definitely the container. Such a frustrating situation.
     
  7. Dingo

    Dingo Giant Squid

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    From our very own Inwall:


    http://www.3reef.com/forums/general-reef-topics/reef-safe-plastics-leaching-myths-facts-57828-2.html
     
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  9. norg.

    norg. Kole Tang

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    Thanks Trent. This explains alot. The only thing that doesnt make sense is that I bought these containers from Paul, the guy I bought the vast majority of my equipment from. He used these containers and his systems were gorgeous. He didnt run much phosphate reducing media either. I have a reactor for GFO in the mail right now to run on my "fresh" salt water from now on. Excess phosphate levels have been the main issue I have had with this system and my tanks before it.
     
  10. Dingo

    Dingo Giant Squid

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    Well, just to play devil's advocate, I can see why this might have worked for Paul... If you would have asked me 6 months ago to give up my GFO usage I would think you are crazy. GFO has been drilled in everyone's heads so that people think that you cannot operate a tank without it! I really was reluctant to wein my tank off of GFO but a well recognized local by the name of Dan Rigle really took a liking to me and took me under his arm. He shared with me many of his secrets and his tons of experience to get me reefing like an "old salt".
    Fast forward to now: My sps reef operates at .07ppm po4 with my heavy feedings and it is slowly going down with time. Granted it is not perfect looking atm but this process takes time and I am slowly progressing! Now I know that this is still .01ppm over NSW and a few points above the 0.03-0.04ppm that is agreed upon as the sweet spot but I will eventually be there in about a year. This produces a specific bacterial biomass in your aquarium that has a niche for sucking up po4 the second it becomes available. GFO just hinders the growth of these organisms and never lets them really take ahold and establish themselves. Dan can feed as much or little as he wants and his po4 stays rock solid at 0.03ppm.
    Aquarium Portrait: Dan Rigle's Acropora Obsession | Coral Magazine
    Reefkeeping Magazine - Tank of the Month
    Reef Spotlight - July 2012

    Now to bring this full circle, I am thinking that your friend Paul had an established tank that "adapted" to the .20ppm po4 being pumped in there and his phosphate loving bacteria were just sucking it up right away without a problem.
     
  11. Dingo

    Dingo Giant Squid

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    Additionally, this is still speculative because I have not had enough time to test it but I do believe that iron can sometimes fuel cyano growth. Now the conditions have to be correct for this to happen though.
    I will have my professional Fe analysis of my tank water back on Monday.

    There will always be some grinding of the Fe media which will produce some residual iron that can be utilized in metabolism of some organism (whether it be macro algae, cyanobacteria, or phytoplankton). I would often have outbreaks of cyano in my reef that was otherwise pristine. Very low DOC, 0.03 po4, and nitrates averaging around 1.4ppm. After plowing through quite a lot of scholarly articles on the biochemical processes of cyano I did discover that some strands are iron limited and only produce blooms in the ocean when there is an influx in available iron. These strands are brown like iron (obviously) and they have a special enzyme that they produce to deal with the high oxidation states they produce while oxidizing organics to get energy from the Fe. You will typically see them with lots of bubbles coming off of them from the above reactions. Also, this enzyme I am referring to is extremely efficient at protecting the cell membrane from any type of oxidation so the Fe dependent cyano is virtually immune to strong oxidizers. I know they can withstand (and even reproduce) in H2O2 and even KMnO4!

    Point being, I have slowly reduced my GFO usage and this has also slowly reduced any spring ups of this ungodly annoying cyano.
    Dont know if this is an issue for you or not but it may be something to consider if you have brown snot bubbly stringy cyano looking stuff growing.
     
  12. Todd_Sails

    Todd_Sails Giant Squid

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