Water changes during cycle?

When live rock uncured was the fad hobbyist wanted to preserve all the cool inverts, and micro algae that come with the expensive LR. Hence you did the water changes to preserve the life on the rock.

It's very common for older more experienced hobbyist to do water changes ie soft cycles with newly set up tanks. The local fish stores do them all the time.

It really makes no difference in the long run, other than you avoid deaths of fish and inverts if they are added to a system too early or initially.

A tank will cycle regardless of if you add dry rock and no organic material, or if you add some shrimp. or if you seed it with LR. or if you use a product. Regardless it's not a length of time issue " how long does it take to cycle" it's a reflection of the values for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate once the tank is running, and after each introduction of live stock.

reefmonkey is 100% correct, it just not a common practice nor advisable to suggest to new hobbyist that are unfamiliar with the tell tale signs of new tank syndrom, nor know the appropriate interventions.

 

Now this makes a lot of since. It seems like the wise was trying to tell somebody not so wise (me) how to do something and butting heads lol. Both methods are correct.

I guess what it boils down to is, what are you using to cycle your tank with? I don't think that was ever mentioned. ;D

 

I agree,there is several ways a cycle can be CORRECTLY completed,with organic decay or without,adding bacteria in a bottle,not adding bottled bacteria.Water changes and no wc's.I prefer to preform hard cycles on a new setup and have been forced into doing emergency soft cycles as well.

I agree with you,Reefmonkey,Corailline and cosmo.You all have great points and solid info.However the one thing i've found thats makes this debate much much simpler is patience and good test kits,remember everyone,nothing good happens fast in this hobby.And cycle times vary to build the proper denitrifying bacteria population.It's the tank owners responsibilty to gain a basic knowledge of this by researching,reading and asking questions from trusted sources,like right here.However a simple nitrogen cycle question should not be treated as a pissing contest.jm2c

OP,simply put,no you do not have to change water during your cycle,however,you can but as stated before it could prolong the cycle.Be patient and when your am and trites hit 0 (providing they spiked to begin with),then do your water change,test again,if alls good,you can begin stocking SLOWLY allowing your bacteria colony to grow with the added bio load.

 

Most everything thats been said is absolutely the truth. However there is an easy way to prevent higher concentrations of ammonia then wanted and that is to limit it in the first place. This can be done by using a smaller piece of shrimp or by reducing the ammount of ammonia added.(this is also why I like to use ammonia and not food or shrimp) I always find the best way is to add a certain ammount of ammonia and test.Once I have the desired level I then calculate the ammount of ammonia to keep that level.(this will change as time goes by and doesn't have to be that exact) This way it doesn't spike as much and you can keep enough food for the bacteria and also limit it at the same time without having to do a WC. Once Nitrate is detected you can stop adding the ammonia or add small amounts until you get livestock.

 

Yep you sure can do it this way. Except when you turn it to real science and math it no longer is a hobby and becomes work. It's the same issue that I have with the forum "experts" when it comes to chemistry. You don't need to know how saturated an ion becomes before it can no longer bind with like ions. All you need to know is how much of what you want to replace is needed and will be used or has been used over a specific amount of time. There is always going to be some math in it but it's simple elementary school stuff. The rest is just unneccessary garbage that only confuses and frustrates most young hobbyists.
I believe it was Bob Fenner who said that all you need for a successful reef tank is freshwater and a good salt mix. But that is an entirely different issue

I do like how you at least mention that the bacteria need to be fed. It's so frustrating when trying to help someone with a QT for instance and they can't understand the fact that even though it was cycled 6 months ago there will be an ammonia spike since most or all of the colony wasn't tossed a pinch of fish food a couple times a week at least and has died off. Or another irk is those that set up an emergency QT with a sponge filter and have kept the sponge in the sump of their DT. But somehow they don't understand why after putting more than a couple fish in they begin to die from ammonia poisoning. This would never happen if they knew the production vs. consumption equation. Instead they would understand that there is no way a single sponge can contain enough bacteria to match consumption with production.

One last comment on this matter is: Someone above said that if you cycle with a shrimp, pull it out as soon as begins to dissolve. Don't do this. Instead put it in a brand new piece of nylon and leave it until it's gone. I say this because sadly most new comers do not have the self discipline and/or patience to add only 1 large or 2 small fish per week after the cycle is complete. By leaving the shrimp until it's completely decomposed you have created the largest, strongest bio filter possible and will have a better chance of keeping up when the new tank is basically fully stocked in one day.

 

Very true. I would also like to add that people usually assume that the cycle is done.Truthfully the cycle is never done. It is a constant evolution depending on the ammounts of ammonia added and its consumption meaning your cycle is never actually done. Ammonia levels fluctuate every day in your aquarium as do the ammounts of bacteria present.(to some extenet)
I am also some what of a control freak and like to do things in somewhat of a technical manner.Some people would consider that as me turning a hobby into a job but for me its a labor of love so its still quite enjoyable.
P.S. I addeed a most to my above post because I don't actually agree with everything that has been posted.

 

Lol! Good points! Yet ANOTHER lesson learned! Sorry led build plus miller lites can make me a bit cocky! Sorry

 

Hate to beat a dead horse but there a few other points about cycling and the danger of letting your ammonia skyrocket.Since the nitrite oxidizing bacteria are slow growing compared to the ammonia oxidizing bacteria a log jam is created were the Nitrites start to spike. This higher level causes the nitrite oxidizing bacteria to grow even slower or come to a complete stop. I have seen a few people lately having this problem.

 

Yeah, really!

But reefmonkey's explanation is spot on to what I always assumed, excellent job!

 

Not only a log jam but at about 5ppm NH3 and 10PPM NO2 bacteria start shutting down due to be poisoned by the volume of waste in the water and further lengthening the cycle.