Trouble choosing a return pump.

Discussion in 'Refugium' started by Magnus, Feb 2, 2010.

to remove this notice and enjoy 3reef content with less ads. 3reef membership is free.

  1. bje

    bje Long-fin Bannerfish

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Illinois
    I agree with Tangster on going with a mag9.5 on a 55gal display. You can always put a ball valve on the return to restrict the output if needed. For the price differential that extra ~300GPH is worth it.
     
  2. Click Here!

  3. Magnus

    Magnus Sharknado

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Ok, so I'm getting the Mag 9.5 then. I do plan in the future to expand with some reactors.

    I'm working on the new design... it's about the same as the first one, but return is in the middle as bje suggested. It'll have that Skimmer-Return-Fuge configuration, as written, the skimmer on the left, return in the middle, fuge on the right with a higher wall/bafler to drain down the return chamber, and the skimmer/reactors chamber will have a bubble trap with 8 inches approximately of water volume for my skimmer optimal operation.

    I'll post that design as soon as I figure out the spaces I need, since I'm getting a 30 long (36Lx 12D x 16H) and I have no experience.

    Tangster, I've been thinking about the smaller suggested tanks, but wouldn't bigger be actually better in this case? First, my whole water volume will be at least 15 more gallons. Second, it would have a bigger fuge, with more rock and algae. Maybe this is not one of the cases where bigger is better, so let me know your thoughts. I still can change stuff around, but I wouldn't want to buy a second return pump or overflow and return pump for a separate tank being that I can include the fuge with a much slower flow in the same tank. Your opinions are greatly appreciated as well.

    Also thinking about the plumbing, so still accepting suggestions on that as well. And believe me, all suggestions are well researched and welcomed sine I have no experience on this.

    I'll try to post the graphic tonight.

    Thanks for all your help!

    - Mag.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  4. Magnus

    Magnus Sharknado

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Sump/Fuge design updated. Come check it out! :)

    My apologies for the delay.
    Here's what i got so far, still wide open to suggestions for layout and plumbing. I believe I'll leave the sock in there for the first 2 months or so, and once the water has been filtered and cleaned out better, I'll remove it and let the skimmer and rock do their work. And please let me know if you would put ball valves in different places. You can click on the image to see with better detail.

    [​IMG]

    Thank you for your help.

    EDIT: Just bought my mag drive 9.5 last night, I hope I'll get the tank today or tomorrow so I can put this together over the weekend!!! Bafler acrylic cuts, pipes and valves and silicone is all I need... thank God!! Almost done.... or am I?? :) :)
     
  5. bje

    bje Long-fin Bannerfish

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Illinois
    The manifold to feed your reactors wouldnt be on the drain side from the display tank it would be fed from the return plumbing.

    Otherwise everything looks fine. I would recommend use of pvc unions or union valves so you can take this apart to clean it or maintenance the pump itself. Id also recommend use of a gate valve instead of a ball valve on the drain from the DT to the sump.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. bje

    bje Long-fin Bannerfish

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Illinois
    Quick photoshop edit to visually show what I mean... Also I moved your plumbing to the fuge to the farthest side of it so water actually flows through it and not just into and over the baffle.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Location:
    Va/Ct
    The only thing I would change per this drawing is I would never use a filter sock and I would extend that fuge feed all the way to the bottom of the sand and U back up so all that solids and water will have to pass across everything to exit the fuge area.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Click Here!

  9. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    You are close to what I built a little over 6 years ago and has been working fine for me. Its a 30G long AGA with 1/4" acrylic baffles siliconed in place. The overflow feeds into the center section where the skimmer and heater reside. The overflow also tees off to the right and feeds the refugium with a 1/2" line and ball valve so I can regulate flow for the macroalgaes, I don't like high flows in the refugium.
    The refugium overflows back into the center section and this all overflows to the return pump section via 3 baffles then gets returned to the display via a OceanRunner 3500, much better pump than a Mag which I wll not use anymore due to noise, heat and power consumption issues.

    Your return section is very very small at only 6" and will require daily top offs unless you have an ATO. Its only going to hold about 2 gallons after the pump displaces its own volume. Plus at 6" wide, or less since that measurement is to the center baffle, a Mag pump or whatever you end up with may not fit with its bottom bracket and suction cups in place. Make your return section as large as possible so you have some breathing room for top off intervals. If you only hold 2 gallons to begin with probably 1 gallon of evaporation will have the pump breaking suction and creating bubbles.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    For your manifold you should plumb it off the return pump since it will give you the cleanest water source, using the overflow will cause plugging of the reactors due to debris in the water.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. WhiskyTango

    WhiskyTango Eyelash Blennie

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,267
    Location:
    Dothan, Al
    Due to the two 90's going to filter sock and fuge, I think you are going to get back pressure and therefore loud, gurgling noise from the overflow. I my experience, you want as-straight-as-possible hose going down from your overflow to sock. I once had a 90 elbow in my overflow hose that created this problem.
    Or use a Y instead of T to get a nice gravity fed free fall of your overflow water.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Magnus

    Magnus Sharknado

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    bje, you're absolutely right on the fuge flow. I'll extend that pipe to all the way to the end of the fuge. Tangster idea bout doing a "U" at the the bottom of the fuge is also a very good idea that I will also implement. About the gate valve Vs. Ball valve, it seemed to me that they would accomplish the same function. Is there a reason beyond my understanding for using a gate valve rather than a Ball valve?

    I liked the "U" idea! I'll definitely will use this too.
    I figured I'll keep the sock on for a couple of months until I start seeing some pod's climbing around the fuge. Not sure it'll take that long or maybe longer for them to show up. If this doesn't happen in the first 2 months or so, I may seed it. I have already seen several of these being sucked into the power head's filter.. so I know they're there somewhere in my DT, just don't see them crawling, and may be because of me not having my fuge area or proper habitat for them to proliferate.


    Please, keep your thoughts coming and help the new ;)

    Thank you again for the help. K+

    - Mag.
     
  12. Magnus

    Magnus Sharknado

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,923
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    I didn't think about this. A "Y" instead of a "T" would accomplish the same function, only I would have the fuge drain falling diagonally, and then the elbow to extend downwards, then the U to bring the flow back through the macro, etc. I've been also thinking about the elbow at the end of the fuge drain... I may be able to extend this diagonal drain right to the middle of my fuge water level. What are your thoughts on this?

    Thank you very much! I'll see what I can do to make the return bigger. I could easily take 2 or 3 inches off the skimmer section, but I need to estimate the space I'll need for future reactors. Shrinking the fuge area may be a necessity :(

    Again, keep it coming, this is very educational :)

    - Mag.