Slime from hell

It is brownish and all over everything. It has killed off all of my snails. I purchased new ones (several differant kinds)and they act like I have put them on a hot plate and do not want to touch it. I've done massive water changes. scrubed. Removed all of the substrate from my refigium and replaced it with fresh. Used chemi-pure. Add phosphate remover. Biozyme. It keeps comming back and has all but whipped out my SPS coral.

 

Give us some info on your tank. How long it has been setup, what kind of water do you use? Have you done any tests latelly, what were the results.

Marc.

 

More info would be great. I see rodi from your sig. Maybe temp, or even old lights that need to be replaced can all affect your tank. Also how has your skimmer been doing? Is it still pulling alot of junk? When is the last time you replaced your rodi filters?

 

Many times I have seen people worried about a film of cyanobacteria (slime algae). The helpful people post all of the proper questions to help a reefer solve their problem. I.E.---How old are your bulbs?, Do you use RO/DI water?, What are your nitrate and phosphate levels?, When was the last time you did a water change?, Do you have good flow in your tank?, Did your tank just finish cycling?.....

Then a week later, the same person will come back on and tell everyone that they did what they were told, and the slime algae still exists. This will start a round of questions like.....What test kits are you using?, When was the last time your RO/DI membrane and resins were replaced, etc., etc. They are told to do another waterchange and it will resolve itself---but it doesn't.

IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND IT TALKS LIKE A DUCK, IT IS ......

Usually a duck---but not always. Sometimes we think we are dealing with cyanobacteria and we are not. Sometimes we are dealing with dinoflagellates. Almost all of us with reeftanks, have dinoflagellates in our tank----Zooxanthellae. This symbiotic dinoflagellate is present in many of our corals. They are from the Kingdom of Protista and the Division of Dinoflagellata. This group possesses two flagella which move them through the water. They have additional pigments in addition to chlorophyll---usually brown or red. Some of them are bioluminescent. I'm sure many of you have heard of bays that glow when the water is disturbed. If you like to experiment, check out this link (BUT DO NOT PUT THIS IN YOUR REEF TANK---ONLY A SPECIALLY SET UP NANO). BL Web: Growing dinoflagellates at home The brown dinoflagellates are present in many of our corals and that is the reason there are so many brown corals. The red dinoflagellates are sometimes known as the Red Tide. I'm sure most of you have read at one time or another about the Red Tide destroying a reef. You do not want this in your tank. Not only do dinoflagellates exist in many corals, they also exist in many Tridacna Clams, anemones, and some sponges. They are never a problem if they are existing in a symbiotic relationship. However, they are a HUGE problem if they are existing in a free-living form.

LUCKILY FREE-LIVING DINOFLAGELLATES ARE RARE IN REEF AQUARIA

Dinoflagellates (hereafter called Snot Algae or Dino's) are one of the meanest things you have ever met in your life. (I unfortunately have had first hand experience). You will follow all of the advice and the problem will keep getting worse and not better. On top of that, some Dino's are toxic (think red tide). If you have a poisonous type, any snail, conch, fish, worm, etc. that eats the bad Dino's will eventually die while you are doing everything people are telling you to do. Then your clean up crew (bristle worms, crabs, etc.) will arrive for clean up duty and will die as a result of absorbing the toxins in the animals they are trying to eradicate. This provides even more nutrients for the Dino's to grow.

They have one interesting characteristic. You will follow everyones advice and go to bed. Then you will wake up in the morning thrilled that the advice worked. It looks pretty darn good---almost everything thing is gone. You go to work---come home 9 hours later and the slime algae is even bigger than yesterday.

If nothing is working, you might have Snot Algae. This algae is different. It is usually brown, has ton's of oxygen and/or Nitrogen bubbles in it, dissapears to a great deal (or entirely) overnight. (Remember it is photosythenetic---that's how it helps your corals grow). It is often called snot algae because it has the same grossness and the same consistency.

HOW DID YOU GET IT AND WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT?

First off, the mere presence of bubbles does not mean it is Dino's or snot algae----cyanobacteria can trap bubbles temporarily that are trying to exit the sandbed or are produced by the cyanobacteria on it's own. As a result, some bubbles can be present with it too. Luckily, most of the time, it IS cyanobacteria. Dino's are usually caused by two things.....Bleaching of corals due to extreme temperatures or a major swing in tank chemistry.

Even if you have non-toxic Dino's, they are still dangerous and precautions must be taken. They have the ability to take up a lot of oxygen. Your fish can "drown" due to the lack of dissoved oxygen not to mention the pH impact.

Again, I want to remind you that this is rare. Usually it is cyanobacteria. However, if you follow a lot of advice and nothing improves, it might be snot algae.

Most of the treatments for cyano's applies to Dino's. However, Dino's require a little more. The pH must be bumped up (8.4 to 8.5) which can be accomplished by dripping Kalk faster than normal. This means your alkalinity is going to be raised higher than normal too. Sometimes you even need to leave the lights off for a couple of days. Before you start your treatment, siphon up as much of it as you can....they reproduce via fission. The fewer you have in your tank, the fewer 'babies'.

Here are a couple of links
Dinoflagellates and Red Tides
Todd Crail - Dinoflagellates, or was that "Boogers with Bubbles"? .... #reefs Article www.reefs.org
AnimalNetwork.com - Home to the publications and services created by Bowtie Inc. - Fancy Publications.

 

I have had a problem keeping the PH up. I have an ozone controller hooked up to ozone and it is keeping it at 300mv. In my home made refuguim It has a charcoal to black color in the bottom 2" of the substrate. This slime started a long time ago and I just started to attack it in the last couple of weeks. I had my water tested and it was zero,zero,zero for nitrates,phosphates,etc. They tested for everything. All ok. AK was high so I backed off on the buffer. Now that I think about it the slime has gotten worse since the ak has dropped. It has not bothered my lps corals or clams and my purple tang is as fat as a tick eating it. Why does he eat it and the sails just flip on their backs and die? I had snails reproducing in this tank before this started. I did replace the ballast for my MH bulbs. I put on electronic ones and the light is more balanced now.

 

That would be a Hydrogen Sulphide zone. Don't stir deep enough in the sand to get that deep in the sandbed. A H2S burp can wipe out your tank. It can even make you pass out.

Not surprising at all. The dinoflagellates are absorbing all of the Nitrates and phosphates so you can't test for them.

I don't know why some fish can eat it with abandon while other species will die. When I had it, my snails and crabs would die from it while my lawnmower blenny could eat it just fine.

 

Curt

Nice piece but I will have to disagree with a couple of things

Dino's are usually caused by two things.....Bleaching of corals due to extreme temperatures or a major swing in tank chemistry.

Again, I want to remind you that this is rare. Usually it is cyanobacteria



Although the bleaching of corals can bring about Dino's you do not have to have any. Dino's can be found in FOT. Dino's are also quite common in new tank cycling. They are most commonly related to too much organic matter in the water and often warmer temps. However, even well run reef tanks can have Dino's problems. Very few animals eat Dino's and toxicity issues is usually not a problem. But a tank suffocated in Dino's is a dangerous issue.

jline

As some have asked what are the parameters i.e., Alk, pH, PO4-, NO3-

It is brownish and all over everything.

As Curt has pointed out these may be Dino's but may also be Cyano's. Dino's can grow anywhere, but often like more high current areas, were as Cyano's usually do not like high currents. One ways of getting rid of Cyano's is to aim a powerhead at them. In Dino's, this will actually increase their growth rate. Are these that you have growing on overflow boxes, discharge tubes or other high flow areas?

Cyano usually produces thin like skins, as opposed to Dino's, which produce thick pancake like mats. Dino's are usually tan, to brown to golden brown and green or colorless and are snot, jelly, gelatinous like. Cyano's are almost any color, even black, to dark green and maroon, to include brown (which is not very common).

Loss of snails does not mean the Dino's are the direct cause. A suffocation of the tank bottom and other areas will deprive them of food. In corals it is similar.

ORP at 300mV

When was the last time you cleaned this probe and checked it "calibrated" it. Higher ORP's from ozone will also help, like in the low 400's. As ORP rises there is a tendency for the so called unwanted algae to appear and the wanted algae to appear. This does not mean in a day or two or even days, but many days or weeks.


By far the best thing to remove Dino's is as Curt stated lights out for a couple of days and pH raised to 8.4-8.5 with kalk. This is after multi water changes and siphoning and removing all that you can see or get out. And this is not a guarantee

This is a classic Dino pic

 

Actually, I agree with your corrections. I should have been more thorough in my response.

I'm going to even make one more correction to my post.

LUCKILY FREE-LIVING DINOFLAGELLATES ARE RARE IN REEF AQUARIA

Actually, Free-Living dino's are not rare. It's only rare when they are in problem proportions. Many corals (primarily SPS) will expell small amounts of zooxanthellae while they are regulating their respiration. They usually get sucked up by the skimmer before they can regrow their flagellae. However, if you have sufficient current, they will sometimes hit another polyp and be ingested. (Called re-infection).

 

:thumbs_up

 

It was dino. I did not have any kalkwasser so I tried the lights off and it helped but it came back. I got some kalkwasser and did the lights off and I think I have broken the cycle. I'm still trying to get my PH up. Special thanks to inwall75. He lives in my area and gave me a call. We had a good long chat. Thanks to all of you as I probably would not have figured it out otherwise. Now that I know what to do I'll keep it under control.