Question on Bio Wheels

Hi, I was told by my local aquarium store owner whom I will refer to as Jack, not his real name, that sand in saltwater tanks was a bad thing since it is so tightly pack together it doesn't allow airflow and the top surface winds up trapping bad bacteria. So I have crushed coral only. He also said I shouldn't add sand as it would clog the undergravel filter he thought I should use. This was after I asked if my burrowing Blennies and or gobies wouldn't be happier with sand to dig into. He also sold me yellow gorgonia which I just read is very hard to keep alive even in well established tanks. And this is also the same guy who told me the neoglyphidodon crossi is a good fish for a peaceful community of fish when I just read they get ugly and MEAN as they get older. Now I am thinking I don't know who to trust anymore. Everyone is saying something different! A different pet store guy talked me into putting sand in my quarintine tank to help grow good bacteria which I did and killed two clowns because the sand was so full of cloudy material I couldn't get it all out. "How can you treat sick fish properly in a quarintine tank if you have sand absorbing it" is what Jack said when I asked him about it. If the sand bag says it has all sorts of good trace ellements and what not in it and is pre-washed wouldn't it lead you to the conclusion that if you rinsed it until the water ran clear you were rinsing all the good stuff out? Of course Jack said he would never sell that particular product in his store as it is inferior. Now he tells me! Can you explain why you feel sand is better. Do I need strong water circulation to facilitate keeping the sand washed as it were? Thanks for any advice on this. I am just a bit frustrated with all the mixed information being given by people who I am sure have good intentions.
Vickipansy

 

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sand in saltwater tanks was a bad thing since it is so tightly pack together it doesn't allow airflow and the top surface winds up trapping bad bacteria.

actually sand is better to have it acts as a natural denitrifier. and it holds more bacteria to maintain a stable system. u really shouldnt have the ugf for a salt tank and having sand is better for sand digging gobies.

sand bed faq

the neoglyphidodon crossi  that u mentiond do get kind of nasty they get up to about 4" but are very territorial

cross damsel

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A different pet store guy talked me into putting sand in my quarintine tank to help grow good bacteria which I did and killed two clowns because the sand was so full of cloudy material I couldn't get it all out.

sand shouldnt hurt your q tank. some people put a little bit in or have bare bottom tanks for quarinteen. as far as the cloudiness being cloudy shouldnt hurt your fish to much. i added sand to an establised aquaiurm but it cleared up in about 2 days running the filter helped but it didnt hurt the fish. and the rock i cleaned off with a turkey baster.having sand or rock in a q tank will absorb some of the medicines thats y most go with nothing on the bottom.  the sand you used was it a bagged live sand with bacteria or a dry sand?  if it was someting like dry aragonite its better to soak it first to help it sink when you put it in the tank if its the live sand you shoulnt have had to much problem with it. dry sand will eventually become live if mixed with live sand or live rock. if it is a dry aragonite its just as good as the live stuff just takes a bit more time to take off.

live sand is better then cc because
1. smaller surfaces hold more bacteria for the break down of ammonia where cc traps detrus and becomes a nitrate factory

2. sand 3" or more becomes a natural denitrator

3. ls is better for critters (pods, worms, microfuana) than the cc

4. for sand sifting fish or digging fish its easier for them to burrow where cc may cut or bruise them

5. cc has to be vacuumed a LOT to keep food partcles and waste down where ls is NEVER vacuumed. thats where the bacteria part comes in. also the critters or hitchikers help keep it stirred even some snails and your digging fish, fighting conchs, crabs, starfish. these are your clean up crews for your sand bed they do the work

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 Do I need strong water circulation to facilitate keeping the sand washed as it were? 

you should have good circulation in your tank anyways for good oxygen levels and especially for keeping corals they need good water flow. your circulation shuld be 10 times your gallons in your tank. so if you have a 20 gall your circulation should be 200 gall/hour just for example. that should be close to what it is heres a page check it out

rate table

one other thing why a ugf should not be used did you ever take it out to clean one and see all the gunk underneath? all that stuff is just sitting there rotting. also once you get your salt tank set up u dont want to go disturbing it to much and pulling out your ugf disrupts your whole system. and u release all the rotting material wich may cause and ammonia spike which u dont want. my personal opinion i dont even like them for fresh water ive had them before and YUCK. but they become nitrate factories because of this also

HTH

 

Re: Question on Bio Wheels/ugf

I should have mentioned that I have a powerhead on one end- tube that goes to the ugf and it is in reverse mode so that the detitous comes up through the filter and cc to surface and be swept away and into the Magnum filter or Penguin filter. That is the idea anyway. I only use the one tube and at the other end I have a powerhead at the bottom of the tank.

 

Wow that is a pretty retro setup Vicki! I am not knocking it, because I know somebody in NY that has a reverse undergravel filter going that way for 30 years in the same tank!!!!

But most don't. If you like the look of the crushed coral go for it. But like Karla said, it takes a little more work to keep it clean. Use a gravel siphon a little bit everytime you do a water change.

If you decide to change to sand, I recommend keeping your crushed coral in a mesh filter bag in your tank during the transition so the bacteria can transfer to your sand.

Another option if you like crushed coral is to have a little bit in the display tank and have a sandbed remotely in a sump so you get the better denitrification that is possible with sand.

Hope that helps....

matt

 

Also you will quickly find that a lot of fish stores have salesman that are either narrow-minded or just trying to sell you stuff. Read as much as you can and keep asking questions!

 

I like the aragonite sand because the grain size tends to be larger (2-3mm) than in the playsand (1mm grain size). Because of the smaller grain size, I've seen these sandbeds pack too tightly for proper sand movement (for infauna to grow). I believe the aragonite sand is the type sand most found in reef settings, with the larger grain sizes. I know that it works very well in my tanks and refugiums. Just my $0.02. ;D

 

Hi, I am having trouble with my tank. I had an algae bloom four days ago and now my nitrate level is at 20. I can't seem to keep my ph above 7.8 and the plants my lfs guy sold me to bring it down isn't working to bring down the nitrates. Also I took the fish out and put them in quarintine because they were all breathing heavily and the lfs guy told me to put an air stone in. I did but discovered that the fish I already had in there had gotten velvet or ich. I am hesitant to move the fish back to the 42 gal tank now as they are exposed to the ich. I have treated them for two days but what should I do now? The lfs guy suggested I should get some well water from my parents as it is alkaline and will hold the ph better. I brought 15 gallons home and added it to my trash can of salt water and while I was sitting reading in the livingroom the can tipped over and spilled about 30 gallons of water all over in front of my 42 & 44 gallon tanks. I'm in an appartment and worried about damage caused by both the water and the salt in the carpet. It seems like every time I turn around something is going wrong. I spend all my time trying to keep up with this stuff and I keep on having one problem after another. I've only had my tank for close to a month and already I am feeling overwhelmed by all the time it takes to stay on top of things. Does it get easier eventually??? I sure hope so because when I get back in school I'm not going to be able to keep doing all this testing several times a day and water changing every week. Not to mention Being able to keep buying more and more equipment. Do I realy need a protien skimmer? If so does anyone know of a diy plan for one appropriate for my tank size,(42gln)? My dad does a lot of handyman stuff and could probably make me one as long as I don't have to buy a $100 dollar pump to go in it. It would need to h.o.b. as I don't have a hole in the bottom of my tank and it is only 3ft long so not much room for more than the two powerhead pumps already in it. I guess you can tell I'm frustrated. Hope someone can help. [smiley=stars.gif]

 

your tank is only a month old alge blooms are expected. every new tank will get these. sometimes several alge blooms up to up to 6 mths this is part of the aging of a saltwater tank. is your tank fully cycled? ammonia and nitrites at 0? if your nitrates are at 20 i wouldnt worry about it thats not that bad. fish can live in very high nitrates and still be healthy. where you want it low is if you have corals it can stunt some coral growth. but even then 20 is on the high end of what you want. what kind of plants did you buy just curious?

what all are you testing for? it should be ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph, alkalinity, and salinity. with you having a low ph i would highly suggest testing your alkalinity it should be in the 9-12 dkh range. these 2 things work hand in hand and you cant have one without the other. maintain your alk and chances are you will maintain your ph. also what kind of salt do you use? most salts will raise your ph to 8.1-8.2.

if your fish already contacted velvet or ich thats where the heavy breathing would be coming from. they are actually types of parasites that eventually attack the gill areas. how are your water parameters in the quarenteen tank? i would suggest keep treating your fish until you get the ick under control before adding them back to the main tank. check out this page for ick and other parasitic diseases
fish diseases

also check out the hypo salinity treatment for ick on that page also
once you figure out whats going on it does get easier. i was testing every day at first but now i test about once a week or so. i still do small weekly water changes because no matter when you do them weekly, bi weekly, or monthly they need to be done. ive gotten past all the alge stages and i just change the water, clean the salt creep, and scrape the corraline off the front of the glass. starting up and getting going is the hardest part of a salt tank
as far as skimmers there are tanks that run skimmerles but they are a big help. i ran for a little over a year ;before getting a skimmer. check the diy part of the forum checkmatekingII has listed a good link with tons of diy stuff and skimmers are listed there

once in a while if my alk does drop a little i use seachem reefbuilder it works as an alkalinity booster and is very easy to use. it kicks it back to where it should be and since i started using that along with regular water changes i do not have any ph problems (just a suggestion) plus it adds some of the trace elements that corals take up out of the water

 

I would ditch the the wheels and get a sump I had a bio-wheel on my quarantine tank and it fell apart.

 

talk about digging from the grave