ORP

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by omard, Apr 23, 2004.

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  1. omard

    omard Gnarly Old Codfish

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    Despite the rather dim view of using Ozone in the home aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farly in the article at start of this thread...(ORP and the Reef Aquarium) - a view, which by the way, he repeatedly makes clear in numerous posts over at ReefCentral on ORP/Ozone/Ozoniers...

    I have found overwhelming recommendations for its use by both Calfo and Fenner at webmedia.com.

    Tried to post a long string of "Snips" I extracted here...but exceded text msg limit.  (if anyone interested can see on my "notes" page @(Omar's misc notes page - ) - misc "notes" for self...

    A "clincher" for me is from Fenner article, Ozone use in Marine Aquarium...

    <snip>


    My Overall Ozone Opinion: The chemical degradation of large organic molecules, responsible for off-color, turbidity, low oxygen and some toxicities by ozone make it's small start-up and operational costs pale. If you're even vaguely considering an investment in any sort of meter, doser, denitrator, ultraviolet sterilizer... STOP, do not proceed to go; buy and use a small ozonizer in conjunction with your skimmer first. Almost all public aquaria utilize ozone with theirs; you should to. The chemical degradation of large organic molecules, responsible for off-color, turbidity, low oxygen and some toxicities by ozone make it's small start-up and operational costs pale. If you're even vaguely considering an investment in any sort of meter, doser, denitrator, ultraviolet sterilizer... STOP, do not proceed to go; buy and use a small ozonizer in conjunction with your skimmer first. Almost all public aquaria utilize ozone with theirs; you should to.


    - Bob Fenner

    Make up your own mind...I have made up mine...

    FWIW,

    OmarD
     
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  3. JohnO

    JohnO Moderator

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    [quote author=omard link=board=Water;num=1082775591;start=0#10 date=05/04/04 at 16:50:35]Despite the rather dim view of using Ozone in the home aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farly in the article at start of this thread...(ORP and the Reef Aquarium) - a view, which by the way, he repeatedly makes clear in numerous posts over at ReefCentral on ORP/Ozone/Ozoniers...[/quote]


    Even though I truly do respect a lot of what that gentleman presents to the hobby as a whole, his point of view is one of a scientific nature and if something cannot be supported by some sort of scientific study then as far as he is concerned it does not exist.

    Consider this quote by R H-F from the link you provided.

    " So is ORP measurement and control recommended for nonscientists who also happen to be reef aquarists? My suggestion is no "

    So unless you are a ' scientist ' you have no place in being interested in ORP, such arrogance :-(

    John
     
  4. omard

    omard Gnarly Old Codfish

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    JohnO,

    RE: ORP & R H-F

    "Agree..."

    But am in no position to argue or disagree with such a well documented and self proclaimed "scientific expert"...

    This seems like one of those very clear instances (which happens frequently in this "art") - where you must make ultimate decision based on those whom you place the most trust and credence.

    I decided long ago to put greatest faith in proven "practical and proven" experts (re Calfo/Fenner) when trying to determine which direction to take in a controversial path.

    Expect all are "right" in certain circumstances...but argument that most large public and commerical aqariums use ozone is what really sways me... They have gazillions of $ invested in livestock and have to think they really know what they are doing...have seen results and I want same.

    Some here obviously going "UV" route...I am going with Ozone. Generator is here, but going to wait a while before introducing...

    ORP monitor/readings still slowly crawling upwards without doing anything so far. Readings now up in 340's and seem to have pretty much stabilized.

    After another week or so will start up and generator at lowest settings and see what happens...

    Goal is to get it up to and keep at right around 400...

    Will see...

    Rgds,

    OmarD
     
  5. mojoreef

    mojoreef Bristle Worm

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    ORP is just a measurement of the battle between oxidizers and reducers, to much of eith and your tank dies. Alot of folks believe that it can be a tool to measure organics or oxigenation in your water , but to be honest not really, to loosy goosy. Thier is nothing wrong with monitoring, and if you run Ozone you must monitor and control it. To much Ozone is the big nasty of the oxidizers and will kill all of your reducers (bacteria) and thus tip the fight toward the oxidizer and thus kill your tank.

    The use of Ozone is ok. Calfo and Fenners main reasn for it is to achieve water clarity for better light penetration. What you must keep in mind when using it is that it is very active, and will seek things to oxidize, so controlling it is critical. In the old days folks began slowing down on using it as skimmers and other forms of passive filtration began to become very much more efficient. that and it can cause fish to get laterial line disease.

    Omar I forgot to mention this before but if you are going to use ozone make sure you buy a air drier with it. Moisture in the air going into the ozone generator can reduce the ozone production by up to 70%.


    Mike
     
  6. omard

    omard Gnarly Old Codfish

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    Hi Mike...

    Paying close attention to your recommendations...

    Here is what I have...waiting to install

    [​IMG]

    Came w/ air-dryer...and ozone-safe tubing...

    Have "John Guest" speedfit fitting on skimmer, which I think I have figured out how works...

    My setup plan as follows...

    Air Dryer connected between air pump and ozonier...to "In" port...ozone-safe tubing from Ozonier "out" to skimmer port...
    Making sure whole thing above water line so not to get any backflow (suppose to be really safe, should put in some kind of check valve in tubing to skimmer - but don't have yet - should not be a siphoning problem as long as system above sump... :-/)

    will start out on minimum settings and watch closely...don't know yet how quick delivery is and how fast ORP readings respond in tank (where I have probe)..also do not know if should just run continuously or periodically, on timer, etc...

    Will have to sort all this out as I go along - with VERY CAREFUL and constant attention...

    Will have to do until I get a more sophisticated monitoring and control system in place...in time ;) - lots to look at & evaluate here also...

    THX

    Scott
     
  7. mojoreef

    mojoreef Bristle Worm

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    Looks good Scott. One last precaution if you wish is to have the skimmer out put drain into a gab with carbon in it. the carbon will kill any active ozone molecule that may make its way out of the skimmer. On the air pump go low with the air coming from it, that will give you a good concentrated mix.

    Other then that your on the road, good luck and keep us posted.

    Mike
     
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  9. omard

    omard Gnarly Old Codfish

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    Good pointers Mike...

    will put flow valve in line from my air pump to reduce pressure and add a bag with some carbon on skimmer outlet...

    Rgds,

    Scott
     
  10. omard

    omard Gnarly Old Codfish

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    Day 2 of running Ozonier ... Aquazone 100, set at 25%...(125 gal, AquaC EV-180)

    ORP reading stablilized ~350 mv

    All other parameters normal, PH, etc... :)

    Water clarity - excellent. :)

    Skimate production nil (???)...normally get 1/3 to half cup a day...since turning on ozone..."nothing" (???)  :-/

    To be expected? - Ozone cleaning out all? - taking time to catch up to new water conditions?  :-/

    Ummm, interesting...will keep close eye on all and leave everything be ...till sure all in some kind of "balance"

    OmarD
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Craig Manoukian

    Craig Manoukian Giant Squid

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    Great stuff, am waiting for the next report!
     
  12. inwall75

    inwall75 Giant Squid

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    I mainly want to comment regarding RHF (but make a couple other comments as well). I don't think he was really trying to insult hobbiests. He runs a pharmaceutical company and spends a substantial quantity of his spare time to help us hobbiests. I know several people in the Boston's Reefer's Society who have stated how nice he is.

    While I previously stated that I doubt I will ever add ozone, I respect your decision to do so if that's what you want and will read this thread with interest. I know someone who will occassionally run an ozonizer for a short bit to polish up the water and he has told me it makes the water crystal clear.

    I guess my main problem with it, is that I tend to screw up things....and you aren't allowed to screw up with ozone. :)

    I have seen so much mis-information on the internet about Orp and Ozone. On a different board, someone recently stated that they grow cyanobacteria every time their Orp hits 280. What was really (most likely) going on was that because the cyanobacteria was growing, their Orp was dropping.

    I also want to remind people to understand ozonizers before adding them. I would hate for someone who didn't do the research you did to just go out and get one.