OK! Time for a Drink! Vodka?

So I suppose you belong to the mentality that there's only one way to do things? The Sugar and Vodka theory is the same as the ZEOvit. If you want to blow off the research of many Publically Please respond in a civil manner which is befitting of great minds and scientist.

I guarantee that your salt doesn't contain all your reef needs.

Please direct me to some pics of your tank. I am sure its a sight to be seen

Thanks
Scott

 

Tangster, I forgot, just because YOU haven't heard of it until yesterday means that people HAVEN'T been successfully reducing their nitrates LOL! Why don't you ask the 100's of people that HAVE tried this instead of posting negative comments about something which you know very little obviously. Do you honestly think that I am trying to crash peoples tanks? That I hate this hobby so much, that I would go through all my time and effort to type at length about something false, or harmful? I have tried this method, I know of at least another 20 people that have, and heard from many many more that have as well. It's not my fault that you haven't been in the areas of reef husbandry which such topics are discussed. Get out more!

As I have stated earlier in this post, don't do this unless you like to experiment, or have a bad nitrate problem. Tangster -DO NOT attempt this. LOL!

And for the people honestly trying to follow this thread, Tangster may have a point in that Vodka, the ethanol in Vodka, is an antibiotic. However so are kalkwasser, and many of the compounds produced on a MUCH larger level by your corals, and the sponges living on your rocks. It is not strong enough to kill the bacterial in your tank however... You can even ask chemist Randy Holmes-Farley, if he were still posting... But I promise you, that your tank will NOT crash, for whatever THAT is worth.

As for the Borneman article, I respect much of what Eric has done for the hobby, and I know that he is very knowledgeable. I have read the article before, and without rereading it, I remember him saying that dosing can cause problems with sandbeds, and that Nitrogen is in limit and not carbon. Neither are anecdotally true however. If people are posting "HELP NITRATES AT 100ppm AND I CAN'T GET THEM LOWERED" then obviously nitrogen isn't limiting. Sometimes there is too much variance to say that X is a fact... I don't know what the sample size were in Erics posted studies, but needless to say, at least SOME tanks are different. Mine was; it isn't now. I had a nitrate problem with NO bioload, fuge, RO/DI, barebottom, and DSB, and tried EVERYTHING -I wasn't even feeding the tank and I had nitrate @ 80ppm.

Eric Borneman will also tell you that a protein skimmer may be harmful to your system. Do you think THAT is true? Probably not, as you have seen MANY thriving systems utilizing protein skimming, I'd venture to say that at this point most of you haven't seen a great system that DOESN'T use a protein skimmer. But the testing and the science tells us that protein skimming removes impurities that may be better removed with GAC.... I am setting up a 55 gallon tank to test this to a certain extent as I am curious... But everything you read in an article is not necessary true. Certainly people writing the books might not have all the answers. But with the samle size n=everyone, you have a decent group to work with, and that is the value of these boards. I wouldn't trust anyone who posts on a subject dissenting about the topic, unless they have tried it. Even then I would want to know ALL the specifics. Maybe Tangsters friend dosed antifreeze instead, I don't know! Maybe he was a Zeovit user too, and the combination caused problems, which would be natural. Who can say?

 

Well said J2.

There are almost an infinite set of variables with in one's own husbandry. To say that the method works for no one is as ridiculous as claiming it works for everyone. It like everything else is just there as another option for people to try.

 

Guys, please calm down just a tad. Its a website for all to utilize and some would rather hear about system maintanence, rather than the "Your Wrong! NO, Your wrong!" bickering thats going on. I dont know either side of it but i do know that poeple are forming the clans that have forever destroyed reefcentral. J2, your bashing people and i wouldnt be surprised if the mods already PMed you.

BTW. Tangster is very knowledgable and successful as i know it. I have been following his advice and have so far had success. If you wish to bash one member, your bashing the website and ruining its reputation. If you hate 3reef so much, just go to RC and join the Tang Police for all i care.





Now for my opinion, if someone in europe said NO flourescents are better than HO or VHO's, would you switch out your lamps? You may, because there are many ways to light a tank, just as there are many ways to remove nitrates. So if one person doesnt follow what europeans or famous aquarists do, does that mean they are unsuccessful aquarists?

 

There you go, maybe thats why Tangster doesnt use it. If someone doesnt do as you do, are you gonna make them? You even said "If it ain't broke, dont fix it". With proper husbandry skills, there should be nothing to fix, IMHO.

 

Well I don't deal in opinions or others theories as I see that as playing with someone else's money. And If I tell anyone what I'd do or not do or a method I practice then its time tested and solid as a rock.. I and many like myself where playing with theses ideas and what ifs yrs before these newer youngsters you seem to admire so much where still in plastic pants LOL

This is nothing new either its been done and after yrs of study and trying to find out what was killing off corals the larger consensus of real experts with real degrees working in the real ocean seem to thing the major reason is DOC's or Dissolved Organic Carbons LOL Free sugar's .. Now again applying common sense And Poo Poo is pure DOC or unused Carbons .. And the bacteria they feed do somewhat feed corals But at some point they go out of control and wipe entire reef systems around the world..

That's just takes you to another reopened old tried failed and tried again failed and now out the box again a DSB system same issue all the aquarium experts who dug this up are still looking for ways to make then work and thats where this is all coming from I suspect.. Keep their sand bacteria fed and happy until the bacteria roll up and boom old song comes to mind hahahahahahaha Wipe out .. But I learned in the early 70's the short coming of the DSB same can be said for the Berlin systems LOL Its European it has the be great LOL Yes well some learned some did not..

The list goes on and on of the what you young guys think to be a great idea that you just read of on you latest new book .. But hide and watch you'll see stay in the hobby 50 yrs and you to well be setting and saying the same stuff I am now.. As for all the experts you said I should read for reference I can't read all that dribble I really could give less then a Rat's butt what any of them say .. You do what you want! But like I said you keep adding it and you will see why a DSB fills up at some point..

Nope I damn sure am Not educated as you pointed out but I'm very smart and rather intelligent and I know SH&T from Shinola Oh Shineola thats a old brand of shoe polish we used to use in the service to get that shine on out boots.

Let me know how it all works out for you.. I know where you are going and please enjoy the ride but that sudden stop is gonna piss you off..

Well at least there will be two for you to have a shoulder to cry on if you can stop patting each other on them long enough . Won't be long you'll be patting that old wallet.. Oh I never have had a NO3 issue .. sorry you do must be doing something improperly if you do also ? Nuff said by me

 

Buddy, You need to read a bit more. No one hear was being nasty until Tangster came along and turned it that way. We were trying to discuss a methodology about reef keeping that is both popular and sucessful for some. I never said that if you dont do this your not sucessful. I am trying to propagate free thinking. But apartently this site is as close minded as RC. Theres an old adage that my Granfather used to say. It goes "Just because its always been done that way doesn't mean its the best way"

BTW Tangster I've been in this hobby for 20 years. I've tried just about everything. I recommend what I use and that works for me. You might find it useful to talk to Boomer or Paul B about being a graceful long time aquarists. Those guys have it figured out. There a pleasure to talk to.

Again I ask you to present some pics of your tank. Surely if you blow everyones idea off then you must have the best Husbanry around. Why must these forums always end up in bickering. Just because someone disagrees with something doesn't mean that its wrong.

If you guys dont want insight int methods of keeping reefs in ways that aren't "Tangster approve" then why is this a forum instead of a blog?

 

This thread has descended into total chaos. What was a good open discussion about a topic has become nothing but bickering.

I think its best if this is closed.

 

Agreed, if people want to fight, just do it thru PM. Oh and Scott, what i said earlier was what I noticed by the way things were typed. J2 was bashing Tangster, which i believe is not allowed, regardless of the circumstances. If i went out and called you uneducated and made everyone believe it, would you really want to stay and share your knowledge? couldve just said "OK" instead of "your uneducated". I know nothing about Ethanal and vodka (well maybe a little cause im polish....) and their nfuencves on reef biotopes. But i do know that teaming up and bashing another member isn't very fair. Scott, you did the right thing and kept your responses Short and Fair, for that i respect you even more.

Gwamma Chicken says "PEACE HOMESLICES!"

 

Yeah! I'm confused ! Can you tell me which bacterial strains are fed with ethanol, specifically ?! How can they support the growth ?!

Could you give me a reference ?! I don't want to be nasty or something but I find this very surprising. I could even risk saying pseudo-scientific!

Ah... BTW, please look here:

You should find the source article here.

I think you should update and/or verify your sources of information. Nonetheless thanks for powering up this discussion. It's truly fascinating subject!