needed Rock ... via Volume, not Lb

Discussion in 'Live Rock' started by crutkas, Aug 18, 2004.

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  1. crutkas

    crutkas Flamingo Tongue

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here too, isn't the surface area of the rock more important than the pounds of the rock?

    SO due to this fact, I'm wondering about how much rock I need per gallon using volume instead of Pounds.

    My brother is getting a 125 gallon tank and I was going to have a sump 10g-20g tank filled with LR and then go to the skimmer then fuge then back to the tank.

    This will provide a larger area of just open water and better looking aquascaping in my eyes. For the sump I was going to use Fiji and for the display tank, I was going to mix it up with some super nice formed rocks to form caves and hiding areas.

    Here is one idea, why not fill the 1" baffles in sumps / fuges with LR rubble to help remove bubbles and provide filtration.
     
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  3. Matt Rogers

    Matt Rogers Kingfish Staff Member

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    [quote author=crutkas link=board=Newbie;num=1092888432;start=0#0 date=08/18/04 at 21:07:12]Correct me if I'm wrong here too, isn't the surface area of the rock more important than the pounds of the rock?
    [/quote]

    Bingo. That's why I always say to look for porous rock.

    [quote author=crutkas link=board=Newbie;num=1092888432;start=0#0 date=08/18/04 at 21:07:12]
    SO due to this fact, I'm wondering about how much rock I need per gallon using volume instead of Pounds.
    [/quote]

    That's really interesting. Don't think I've ever seen a calculation for this.


    [quote author=crutkas link=board=Newbie;num=1092888432;start=0#0 date=08/18/04 at 21:07:12]
    Here is one idea, why not fill the 1" baffles in sumps / fuges with LR rubble to help remove bubbles and provide filtration.[/quote]

    Many people do this. Never was really my preference, always thought it would lead to a dirtier sump. But I don't have much to base that on.

    That said I haven't heard any complaints from people doing it.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    [quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=Newbie;num=1092888432;start=0#1 date=08/18/04 at 21:38:21]
    Many people do this. Never was really my preference, always thought it would lead to a dirtier sump. But I don't have much to base that on.

    That said I haven't heard any complaints from people doing it.
    [/quote]

    Why would it lead to a dirtier sump? By having LR in your tank, wouldn't that lead to a dirtier tank?

    I have zero experiance in this and I'm aware of that. With that said and I've stated before, I'm attempting to make the system so I have to do as little as possible. While I don't want a lot of LR in the main tank (read wall of rock), I don't care if it is out of sight, out of mind (read sump / fuge). Plus this method will help get the gallon to LR up.

    If I can shove in lots of crap (cheap) porous rocks in the sump in the baffels, why not? That area is just going to waste anyways. And with lots of smaller rocks, the rock will have an extremely high surface area to weight ratio.

    Are these valid assumptions?

    *couldn't remote in to my home desktop but this is crutkas
     
  5. Matt Rogers

    Matt Rogers Kingfish Staff Member

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    I'm not trying to discourage you, go for it. Like I said, many do.

    If you put a lot of rock in a tank, it does silt up a bit eventually if memory serves from the old curing tanks we had at the store.

    But this is not a huge amount. Personally I'd probably just put a polishing sponge or floss right before the sump pump to periodically clean. But some people don't even do that.

    Remembering your schematic, you have a good plan, I say do it and learn as you go. Nothing you had mapped out looked seriously detrimental to me.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What do you mean by silt up?
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Trust me, you're not discouraging, I'm just attempting to learn as much as possible BEFORE I spend a grand on equipment only to find out I screwed up and have to buy more.
     
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  9. inwall75

    inwall75 Giant Squid

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    Matt is right on both counts.  Porousness of the rock determines how large of a biological filter you can have.  If you go with Florida rock, you typically want more rock.  If you go with Marshall Island, Kaellini, etc. you can get by with less rock (but it is more expensive).

    Yes, the LR in the tank will make the tank dirtier.  Hopefully, your flow is high enough that most of the detritus will make it into the water column to be removed by the skimmer.  Some it will land on the sand bed and be temporily sunk.  

    The LR in a sump will make the sump dirtier (siltier) because bacteria in LR is always cleaningthe rock out. It will  shed detritus just like the LR in the tank. If you were to take a rock, drop it in a bucket with fresh saltwater, a heater, and a powerhead, you would be amazed at how much junk spits out of it and will land on the bottom of the bucket and sits on the rock itself. You could siphon the detritus out and then wait another 3 or 4 days, and there would be more there. This is all done by bacterial turgor (pressure) and it's a good thing otherwise our rocks would be always colored green with algae.  The detritus that the bacteria is pushing out of the rock is concentrated algae food.  That's why you need to turkey baste your rocks often.  

    It's not a problem to have LR in the sump.  You just need to turkey baste that rock too and siphon detritus regularly.

    BTW....this is why I tell people who want a sand bed NOT to cure LR in their tank with the sand in it.  Let the tank cycle, and let the rock shed the detritus prior to putting sand in.  There is no reason to fill up a sand bed with detritus before it's necessary.  Doing this will make your cycle last a few days longer but your sandbed will last a lot longer.
     
  10. Craig Manoukian

    Craig Manoukian Giant Squid

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    Great stuff Matt and Curt! Real good advice and information.

    Welcome Clint and feel free to join as a member, you won't be disappointed!
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am a member, I'm just not able to login since I'm at work (I'm the one who started the thread ;D).

    here is the thread with my ideas for fuge's. (going to do either euroreef / aquaC skimmer one)

    http://www.3reef.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Refugium;action=display;num=1091405856

    I was going to add in the LR before the return in the baffles but now due to you guys, I'm thinking that is a bad idea.

    In the main tank, I was going to have the sand sifting snails (starts with an N, something like nassual snails). Wouldn't they eat the ditrus?

    For the 125 tank my brother is going to do, I was going to have a sump filled with LR, the flow in that tank I'd imagine would be heavy but would it matter if the ditrus built up in there?
     
  12. inwall75

    inwall75 Giant Squid

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    Not necessarily....you just have to keep that area free of detritus also.

    The only good place in your system for detritus is your skimmer cup. If it builds up anywhere else in your system (sponge filter, behind rocks, in your overflow, in your sump, etc.) bacteria will break it down into Nitrogenous compounds and Phosphates. Neither of those are good unless you want an algae-ridden tank.

    Yes, Nassarius snails eat detritus. They then poop 90% of the nutrients right back out into the sand. Sand beds have a finite lifetime so the least amount of nutrients you sink into it, the better.