Need help with fishless cycle. Now sure what to do.

Discussion in 'Freshwater Aquariums' started by martynb, Oct 26, 2013.

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  1. martynb

    martynb Plankton

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    Hi, I may have posted in the wrong forum,

    I'm about 3 weeks into my fishless cycle, 60litre, tropical tank. I've used household ammonia and treated the water with Seachem Prime. I have an API testing kit and have been using it from the start.

    I have documented the readings and it appears that after 12 hours I get high nitrates of 160ppm, and 0ppm to 0.25ppm ammonia. I get Nitrites of 5.0ppm and this hardly fluctuates. Ph normal reads around 6.4 but it does dip to 6.0ph after 12 hours. I have soft acidic water.

    Every 12 hours I do a 50% water change but lately I've been doing a 80% water change. After a 50% water change I can get the ammonia back to 4ppm and get the nitrates down to 80ppm; the ph goes to 7.6ph. This is also roughly the same for an 80% water change.

    I have been advised to get some bicarb of soda but I have also been told not to mess about with the ph and it wouldn't affect the cycle anyway.

    Am I just going through the cycle or am I doing it wrong?
     
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  3. Mr. Bill

    Mr. Bill Native Floridian

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    Hi, and Welcome to 3Reef!

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but honestly, the only good advice you've received is not buffering the pH at this point.

    First, I would not recommend using household ammonia. I prefer the tried-and-true method of placing a raw cocktail shrimp in the tank and allowing nature to take it's course. You'll get a more robust- and more stable- biofilter.

    Even more importantly, your tank water should never be treated with Prime except in a dire emergency. If you have municipal tap water, you want a dechlorinator that does nothing more and nothing less. Period. Prime alters the properties of ammonia making it less toxic, but now it must be removed manually. It can also affect test results with cheaper kits like API. If you're treating your make-up water with Prime when doing water changes, you are basically chasing your tail. The best use for Prime is detoxifying the ammonia in bag water (which you do not put into your tank!) during the acclimation process with a shipment of livestock.

    My only recommendation is to continue the water changes (with a dechlorinator only) until all tests are zero, then start your cycle over.
     
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  4. martynb

    martynb Plankton

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    I started to do it with a shrimp first but was warned that it could take too long and could introduce unwanted bacteria into the tank. Also I was told that the bacteria just need ammonia - it doesn't matter where it comes from so as long as it is just ammonia and nothing else. The household ammonia I use was recommended to me by a few major aquarium retailers as the best and most efficient way of cycling a new tank. So as long as the ammonia source is just ammonia and nothing else.

    I was also recommended to use Prime because it would render chloramine less harmfull to the bacteria - a dechlorinator does not do this; it just removes chlorine. Chlorine eventually dissipates but chloramine is more robust. Seachem Prime is very useful for this.

    According to another forum I should not be doing any water changes.
     
  5. oldfishkeeper

    oldfishkeeper Giant Squid

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    I'm sure it's so confusing getting different advice. Is there anyway you could use RO/DI water? That makes everything easier because you're just watching the water and not other contaminants that can get things mixed up. At this point, I would start over - your nitrates are so high that water changes are the only way to bring them down. I've never heard to put straight ammonia into the tank, you want something in the tank that takes a while to decay and releases the ammonia more slowly.

    My understanding of prime is that it would be working against you in trying to create the natural cycle. I think it would just be easier to empty the tank and start over with RO/DI water or at least RO or distilled water.
     
  6. Av8Bluewater

    Av8Bluewater Giant Squid

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    Yeah, You will always get a bunch of opinions on these things. I would just let it continue on the cycle. Adding ammonia is most likely a lot more ammonia than a single small cycle fish would pee into the tank. It just sounds like there is a larger amount of bacteria trying to colonize than normal probably due to the extra ammonia. Nothing wrong with that really. If you leave it alone the bacteria will grow enough to stabilize.
    Regarding the nitrate.. That's usually a normal part of cycle. If it's still that high after the NO2 and Ammonia drop to zero do a water change before adding fish.
    I prefer the shrimp method but from what I understand direct ammonia works. Like said above though the shrimp or cycle fish method seems more natural.
    I would never run a tank using tap water... I know some do depending on how good the local water is but it's just asking for problems. Also more and more cities are switching to chloramine from chlorine. It's harder to get out of the water with a normal RO/DI unit. They are coming out with the chloramine reducing RO/DI units these days. It basically has an extra carbon block to get the chloramine out. You can call your local city to see if they use chloramine.
    I am one week into my cycle and your readings sound about where mine are with the dead shrimp no fish method.
    My last cycle was a very small spike in Ammonia, NO2 and very little NO3. I used a damsel and one of those bacertia seeding products. I think it actually did work but really a waste of money unless you are just trying to lower the stress on a cycle fish.
    A Typical Break-In Cycle