Miracle Mud Vs Live Sand

Discussion in 'Refugium' started by Ryan Duchatel, Jul 28, 2012.

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  1. Ryan Duchatel

    Ryan Duchatel Millepora

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    Hey Guys,

    I heard a lot of good things about miracle and live sand sand refugiums. In my refugium that will arrive in a week, im thinking of putting a pure miracle mud substrate with live rock rubble and cheato, calupera macro algaes.

    That sort of went out the window when I was ordering some more stuff and saw a refugium kit from CaribSea that contained a 40lb of live sand, a small amount of miracle mud (5lb) as well as calicum carbonate rubble and some purple up/ other bacteria.

    If i was to get that kit I would still definately add cheato and calupera. But should I be wanting more miracle mud? IS 5lb enough? I was planning on doing the whole substrate with it so getting like 30lb.

    Can caulerpa be planted successfully in just sand? or is it going to need a firmer substrate for planting like miracle mud?

    Even though it says miracle mud can be used without a protein skimmer, im still definately using a protein skimmer.

    Thanks heaps Guys

    Ryan
     
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  3. pink4miss

    pink4miss Panda Puffer

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    miracle mud should be only about 1 1/2 to 2 inches deep at the most. so that may be enough? if you make it to deep you could have problems with it
     
  4. Ryan Duchatel

    Ryan Duchatel Millepora

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    Thanks, I didnt know it if was to deep you could have problems, what kind of problems are you talking about? Taking to much nutrients from the water?

    It wouldn't be enough to make it 1.5 inch deep I dont think. The sand would be easily enough to make a DSB. Does a DSB require air pumps to bubble through it?

    I could just get a small amount more and make a 1.5 inch deep layer after I get the kit.
     
  5. schackmel

    schackmel Giant Squid

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    problem with mud is that you have to replace a portion of it at least every 6 months. It can be very expensive.

    If all you are wanting to grow is calupra/chaeto, yes you do not need the mud. I personally would not do the mud at all.
     
  6. Ryan Duchatel

    Ryan Duchatel Millepora

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    Great. I have read thats its good to use put around the roots of calupera etc. So I might go with that.

    Thanks alot guys!
     
  7. rc_mcwaters3

    rc_mcwaters3 Clown Trigger

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    I have read that you can use clay kitty litter it comes in the red bag at walmart for like 5 bucks in the place of the mud, its alot cheeper and might help if you were wanting to save some money.
     
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  9. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    A lot of people read info and look at this hobby as a cookie cutter hobby that you just do a and b and c and whala... you really need to understand what it is you are doing and why you want to do it.

    "Supposedly"... MM has trace elements that leach into the water and keep trace element levels up. However, nobody can say what there trace element levels are, what is deficient, and what is excessive. Nobody can say when the MM bed becomes depleted. So you buy some expensive mud, then have to keep relacing it. You constantly stir up your bed and replace it... for what?

    Most people do use a sand cap over it because it will be swept away. So if you use MM, you do need to put sand over the top of it. Some people do use Kitty litter made from clay and only clay... same thing, trace elements, cheap, you need to replace from time to time.

    A DSB has other benefits of low oxygen zone to process nitrates. The sand bed itself is home to micro fauna. Many critters inhabit it. You want a healthy bed that does not get chocked with ditritus. It needs flow and circulation. The critters will tend it. You could put a sand sifter star in it... but they have HUGE appittites and will more than likely starve in a fuge DSB. I had one that I would throw in there from time to time, but it lived in the main tank.

    "Kits" are a waste of money. Period.

    Do not put rock rubble in a fuge. Pods do not need the habitat. Algae and the sand bed are plenty. All it does is become a detritus trap and chokes out your sand bed. It is worthless as far as a bio filter for the main tank... that is what the live rock in the tank is for.

    Calurpa and cheato are fine... but you do not need both. They will compete and one will loose. I found cheato to be much less hassle. I had calurpa originally, but it did not grow well because I did not have a lot of nitrients... but even still... the whole point is nutrient export and when it came time to export nutrients by removing algae... cheato was much easier to deal with. You want calurpa to root, but then you wind up pulling it out. Just stick with one, the pods don't care.

    Variety is good, but these "things" we put in our glass boxes have specific purposes and provide specific roles. Stick with using the right tool for the right job. If you are concerned about trace elements, you can always spend plenty of money on magic potions in bottles... but then again, nobody can say what you need or don't need... and that is the purpose of using quality salt mixes and doing regular water changes. Regular meaning what ever is regular for what your system needs. More is not always better in this hobby, but more is always more expensive. :)

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
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  10. ReefBruh

    ReefBruh Giant Squid

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    Well spoken, written and said.
     
  11. Ryan Duchatel

    Ryan Duchatel Millepora

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    Thanks, advice I will definitely take on board.
     
  12. trap.sltlr

    trap.sltlr Plankton

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    This MM and live sand battle have me confused. I was going to use live sand, rock and chato and let it roll. Is that not the right way 2 go?

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