Lighting and LED discussion

Thanks for engaging in this discussion. I wish more lighting companies were willing to educate hobbyists like yours. It seems to me that you guys have made the commitment to design a fixture for the health of the corals. Others have designed theirs to benefit the appearance. Although those other LED companies may not use LEDs that benefit the coral health as much as Orpheks, that is not to say that thier level of output is not effective and won't get similar results. Or am I missing something.

Based on what I'm seing, the output of your current fixture is 8000 lm which equals approx 67 lm/w. Do the new diodes increase on this efficiency?

 

i was lucky with my dads engineering company having one..they are very expensive..at least very expensive for a college kids wallet..

 

Let's continue this discussion...

The spike in the 550nm range(said to be useless for corals) is of no use, but does that make it "bad" ? With the spike in the 430-440nm, as well as the lower spike in the green range(550nm), would this average out to be about 450nm, because the spike in blue is so much greater than that of the green range? -- (Aqua Illuminations fixture)

 

Im a little confused as to what your asking... are you asking if the 430nm and the 550nm wavelengths will average out to make a 450nm wavelength?
If that is the question then the answer is no. Each photon will be emitted with its own specific wavelength. the wavelength a particular photon has is a function of its energy level. The energy level has no effect on the frequency of emittance of photons. The spikes you see on the spectral output graphs are a measure of the frequency of emittance for that specific wavelength. Then the data for every wavelength is put together into one to give you that smooth looking graph.

Photons do not change wavelength unless they physically transfer energy from themselves to another molecule. This can be seen in fluorescence and decay or absorption of photons [the reason why blue light travels farther than red in water is because the red photon wavelengths transfer energy to water molecules MUCH easier than blue wavelength photons transfer energy]

 

OK...thanks, dingo. So, technically, what we will see will be "in the middle" of the two wavelengths, but both separate wavelengths are still available(though green is not usable) to corals?

I see now that obviously the spectrograph of the power LEDs put out by Orphek is better when it comes to the wavelengths preferred by our corals, than the spectrograph of the CREE LEDs in the AL Sol light fixture. Would it be out of line to say that the Orphek fixtures would directly be a better choice than the AL, due to the LEDs used(power LEDs vs. CREE)?

 

To your first question: yes, as the colors your brain perceives are the result of a very complex process involving averaging of electrical signals from the eyes. Simple version: the proteins in the rods/cones of your eyes are receptive to very specific wavelengths of light. As the photon transfers energy to change the shape of the proteins in your eye an electrical signal is sent to your brain. Based on the frequency that this signal is sent to the brain from each individual rod, your brain will "fill in" or average out exactly what color you perceive.
Here is a vague explanation Rods & Cones

To answer your second question: I dont know... I cant say for certain. The Orphek diodes seem much better thank competitors but I havent seen them for myself so I cant be definitive here.

 

Thanks for answering Dingo, I was at a trade show this weekend. Unfortunately I got no new info on LED to share. I did have fun though visiting with friends.

As for Seano's second question...what you have heard IMO, is all marketing gobbleygook! That is why I feel they never answer direct questiions. Sometimes electing to send over a talking head to make their points for them. PUR is not something that hobbyist should be obsessed with. It's value has been way ovwerhyped for marketing purposes.

For me I love having companies sahre knowledge with reefers. but useless marketing gobbleygook should be kept in their sponser forums. I feel this should remain an educational forum.



Are Orpheks bright?

Yes, in their hot spot



Are they comparable to a 400 watt MH?

Only in their hot spot.

 

In another thread, it was discussed that we carry on some more discussion regarding LED in the Lighting forum. I know a few that were commenting on this thread may not be willing to continue but it's worth a shot. I figured this thread has some more potential so lets have at it.

Here are my thoughts of the current state of lighting in our hobby.

Florescent and MH are basically dead technologys. There is not much more we will see that will vastly improve either of these lighting techs. It is tested and true and we know what the results, and they are good!

LED definitely has the future in front of it. We already know it can grow corals, now if we can get the proper spectrum to get the coral colorations from sps that we have achieved from halides, I feel it will be game over for halides. The biggest advantage is that all of the higher quality LED units seem to be more energy efficient (output/watt) than all of the halides used in our hobby.

I have not run a LED tank as of yet but I would guess that the weaker coloration issues could be due to the fact that the most experienced long time sps keepers have been holding off on LED. I expect to be moving to LED by the end of this year. I have sampled the Vitrea, Ecoxotic Cannon, Orphek PR-156, Maxspect G2, and Aquaillumination Sol Blue. Looking forward to trying the Maxspect Mazarra which uses a combination of 5 different types of LEDs in each unit. Best part of LED, is that like computers and other digital electronics, prices decrease as we move forward in technology. Over the years, the light fixtures will get better, brighter and cost less. To date, only one company seems to be bucking that trend. That however could be a supply issue.

Another Tech I am interested in is plasma lighting. The current stuff on the market best replicates the sun and I am told that the gas in the bulb can be mixed to produce a more aquarium friendly spectrum. Best thing about this is tech is that the technology is
producing output efficiencies that rival and in many cases exceed the LED's being used in the best LED fixtures. Downside is the price is coming down but may never really be cheap enough to be a competitor to LED.

 

A Few Questions and Notes
I can't wait for better LED gen that are cheaper and more efficient to come out. This might wipe 1W rebranded fixtures from the market. I know they provide growth but who originally makes them?
Secondly, I believe there are only a select few LED companies working directly for the aquarium industry, AI among them. Not to favor a company, but was it because AI had the guts too reveal the "guts" of their fixture that the Cree X series popularity in DIY projects was launched?
Who is saying that a Cree 3w emitter is better than a Bridgelux emitter?
As I stated in another thread, I think the best way we have of comparing LED FIXTURES is PAR/

 

Honestly I don't think the SPS coloration is much of an issue as it stands today. Admittedly, I've never ran an SPS tank on MHs, but the SPS in my tank do not seem to lack any color compared to any MH tank I've ever seen. Using a Rapid DIY build which has been up on my tank since Oct of last year.

You be the judge; photo is untouched (beyond PAS camera settings):