Discussion in 'The Bucket' started by Ryland, May 4, 2011.
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why dont we just switch to propane
I guess I should be a little clearer. We can store it. However, we CANNOT store it with enough density to create a large amount of energy. You can place it in an LP tank and have hydrogen stored. (Extremely dangerous and I do not recommend it) But it will not be dense enough to hold large enough quantities to fuel cars over long distances. Anybody who claims we do is lying and needs their head examined. If they did have this technology they would be millionaires many time over.
Expensive, and again, we can't just make the stuff easily like we can do with hydrogen.
Hydrogen is one of the most readily available resources on the planet. I am not sure if it is the way of the future but I suspect it is. I am still burning gasoline but at a much slower rate. My hydrogen fuel cell is helping the pistons to move which equals more power and less gasoline usage (requires tuning of the air/fuel mixture). Call it what you want but these thing work. I admit I could be completely wrong but I predict we will see these in every car you can buy within ten years.
Still no pictures? Ill follow this cause im very interested in seeing how its all working and tapped into the car. What kind of car do you have this set up on? Also what kind of air/fuel ratios are you running and how does the volume compair to gasoline as far as how much needs to be injected to make the right combustion?
Here is my opinion, as a humble engineer (I have a background in industrial energy efficiency and thermal systems):
Based on a bit of quick research into available "DIY hydrogen retro-fit kits" and from your first post, it looks as if they run off of the electrical system of your car. Given that, the process seems to work as follows:
1) Vehicle burns fuel to drive the alternator
2) Alternator generates electricity which in turn powers the electrolyzer (efficiency loss here through conversion of fuel to electricity)
3) Electrolyzer generates hydrogen gas + oxygen gas
4) Gas mixture is injected into the combustion chamber along with fuel
5) Combustion process now follows the same process as conventional vehicles
A few points:
-The hydrogen gas you are generating is essentially uncompressed (even under combustion chamber pressures ~100 to 200psi there would be a negligible difference in energy density by volume) giving you an energy density roughly 0.011 MJ/L (no time to look up charts on H2 volumetric energy density vs pressure).
-The now displaced volume of liquid gasoline has an energy density of 34.2 MJ/L (much, much higher)
-Powering a vehicle even partially with hydrogen requires FAR more H2 by mass than a standard 12V alternator can possibly produce in one combustion cycle
-You are burning fuel to create fuel. Given the Law of Conservation of Energy, you are not creating additional energy by converting gasoline to hydrogen, and you actually face an efficiency loss in this process. Unless the engine is burning the H2 more efficiently (given the lower energy density, this is clearly not the case), the only reason you may be seeing mileage gains is because you now have a lower gasoline:gaseous mix and are therefore simply running a leaner mixture.
During my (albeit quick) research, I was not able to find a credible source evaluating these products. Thus I can only conclude that they are "snake-oil", much like the electric "superchargers" they used to sell, which were basically just electric computer fans bolted onto your air intake. Or the magnets you put on your fuel lines.
However, if you do happen to come across verifiable research which confirms that you can, indeed, get more energy by converting gasoline to electricity and then convert that electricity to hydrogen for combustion, please let me know. I have several large gas-fired industrial drying ovens which I am redesigning to improve efficiency, and possessing a machine that would allow me to break the laws of thermodynamics would be a huge plus.
But, hey, if it works for you, no harm no foul.
I was one of the biggest skeptics of this setup as well. But once it was built and I saw the results....it works. I realize there is no info on google to back up any claims but the fact remains they work. I cannot challenge your engineering backround but I will tell you that until you tinker with one of these you have no idea of what they are capable of. Pictures loading now.
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