High phosphates and nitrates

Discussion in 'New To The Hobby' started by beamer, Jun 5, 2004.

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  1. inwall75

    inwall75 Giant Squid

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    I don't think that Mike wants you to siphon the sand OUT, I believe he would like you to lightly siphon the top layer of sand to remove detritus and do a waterchange.

    Siphoning out sandbeds that are filled with detritus can be dangerous. I don't know if your sand bed is deep enough to produce a Hydrogen Sulphde zone but you never know until you disturb it. If you go the siphoning method, you are going to want to catch all of the fish out of the tank before doing so. If it got released into the water column, your fish would all die.
     
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  3. beamer

    beamer Sea Dragon

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    If we do go through with it we will completely break the tank down so that there will be no harm to anything. I just need to get some things done and out of the way before I can do anything with it. I just dread having to do it.

    Cindy
     
  4. Craig Manoukian

    Craig Manoukian Giant Squid

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    You'll be an expert when your finished Cindy. It's all good in the reefing world!
     
  5. beamer

    beamer Sea Dragon

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    Right now I think I'm more worried about my air conditioner and it rusting out. It sounds like its stopped up AGAIN and I need to go take care of it before it starts leaking AGAIN.

    Has anyone else on this board ever had trouble with rust of some sort in the house especially with the airconditioner?

    In the past if it stopped up a little because I didn't put clorox in it, once I got it unplugged it was fine. but this has been a couple of days together almost back to back and its kind of a rusty looking mud.

    If the tank is the problem then it will have to moved, and I don't have any place else to put it. The only other place would be only a couple of feet down the wall from where it is not so that really would not do me any good cause the same thing would be happening.

    Cindy

    Cindy
     
  6. mojoreef

    mojoreef Bristle Worm

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    I think thier must have been a little confusion over what I said. I think the sand should be completely removed, I really dont like the little at a time thing, as you will hits the nasties and that could hurt the tank mates. Cindy your husband it right, the best thing to do is to just do a quick breakdown, you dont need to tank the tank off the stand. You can take the water/rocks/fisha nd corals and put them in some holding tubs in the same room. Once the water level gets with in an inch of the sand just use a shop vac to suck it out, then a quick wipe of the tank and you are ready to put stuff back in.
    My suggestion on what to do for filtration is to go with about 1 to two inches of Crushed coral and then make sure that once a week you syphon it to remove the detritus, I dont think you have a chance at total biological filtration with the ammount of fish and the limited size of tank, so doing the syphoning is going to give the biological a big break. When you are putting things back together I would put the rock on the bare bottom and then add the CC over the areas that the bottom is still exposed.

    If it makes it any easier for you I am about to do the same thing as you (no sand though) on a 1000 gallon reef system.

    We do what we have to and then move on.

    good luck and you can do it no problem


    Mike
     
  7. dx7fd2

    dx7fd2 Sea Dragon

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    I misunderstood you, Mojo.

    If there's a place to put everything, a shop vac is the way to go, then the tank doesn't have to be moved. That will work!! ;)

    I have heard it is easier to keep a tank, with that many fish, clean by not using gravel at all. At least if the rock is on the bottom and the gravel not under the footing areas, it will be easier to avoid the problem reoccuring.

    I have never heard of that AC problem, but it kind of stands to reason that if the unit is getting salt air into it major problems will be unavoidable. I wonder what sailboat and powerboat owners do to avoid the rust problems out on the ocean. They probably have the money to replace the units!!
     
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  9. Matt Rogers

    Matt Rogers Kingfish

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    Yeah boat people have mulah. ;)

    $6000 for an air conditioner! Holy smokes! :eek:

    Oh Cindy, you have a lot on your mind! :p

    @Mojo - why crushed coral and not sand?

    @DX - barebottom would require some more water changes to compensate for the nitrates that would be not be broken down from the lack of sand, yet in the long run, you would not have build ups requiring sand replacment either. so, myself, I'm not sure if the long term benefits outweigh the short term benefits of nitrate reduction. God does this make sense? ;D
     
  10. mojoreef

    mojoreef Bristle Worm

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    Its not that big of a problem Cindy I know you and the hubby can do it..

    Matt here is my line of thinking on Cindy's woes.
    When looking at the bioloads that a tank has or is going to have, and trying to match up a filtration system to handle it becomes a mathimatical equation. So when I look at the nitrogen processing capabilities of a few different system I can see what wont work. In the wild, in a lagoonal sand bed loaded with all the critters and all the recruiment (basically the best dsb you can get) your only going to get about 5 mg per m2 per day of nitrogen fixation So in Cindys tank if it were perfect maybe 1mg/m2/day. This formula also relates to nitrification and denitrification. Basically the numbers are not even close. In a tank of her size with say a 6 inch dsb fully loaded and fully functioning I would say maybe 7 to 8 small fish. According to Dr.ron and RobT it would handle 3 to 4 small fish. So going this route would again just be a temperary fix.
    OK Cindy's tank with a Bare Bottom. It could be done but I think thier would be far to much detritus in the water column and turbity would become an issue. Also se would have to revamp her flow and skimming and filtering capabilities. Also she has some fish that perfer substraights. So I think although it could be done I think Cindy needs to have some immediate time to enjoy her tank for a whlie.
    OK why the CC. Trying to filter this tank biologically is not going to work because of the bioload. It is going to need mechanical assistance in a big way. The reason I am suggesting CC is so that the detritus can be trapped by it and easily removed via simple weeky syphoning done in conjunction with Water changes. This type of filtration system will still have the LR performing nitrification and denitrification and will also get a bit from the CC as well. Removing the excess organics and detritus/waste via the syphon will greatly reduce the ammount of the previously listed from overloading the reamining biological filtration. It will also give her a sediment substriaght for the fish and corals she has and want to keep. Also its an easy fix that she and her hubby can do over a weekend.

    Anyway thats kind of my line of thinking anyway.


    Mike
     
  11. fletch

    fletch Kole Tang

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    [quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=Newbie;num=1086480105;start=60#66 date=06/11/04 at 14:57:23]Yeah boat people have mulah.  ;)
    [/quote]

    Yup Big bucks here ;D [smiley=hehe.gif]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. beamer

    beamer Sea Dragon

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    Thanks guys!

    I like the idea of using a shop vac, I'll need to go buy one. I'd been thinking about getting one anyway in case I had a big time leak.I thought I'd have to scoop the sand out, then take the tank outside and wash it out. I know my husband and I couldnt do that ourselves. Too heavy for bad backs, so I like this idea.

    As far as the substrate goes we've discussed having about 3 inches of sand. I will discuss the option of CC with my husband, although it goes against everything that I have learned and we like some of the sand critters, like our sand sifting star.

    I spoke with my hubby tonight and he's going to start helping me with the tank so its not all dumped on me, especially now while there is so much to do. That makes me feel a lot better.

    Mike, where on earth do you put a 1000 gl tank? Surely it must be one at work? I'd love to see a photo of that!

    The $6000 for the air conditioner included a very large air handler inside that's a little pricey as well as a new unit out side. Also the duct work through out the house,and extended warranty .

    When we break the tank down we may go ahead and move it down the wall a 2-3 feet and at least it wouldn't be right in front of the vent.

    Thanks for the replies,

    Cindy