High phosphates and nitrates

inwall --Wow, thats a lot of good info. Thanks. A little different perspective. I appreciate that.

I notice your from St. Louis. I worked with a pharmaceutical co. out of St. Louis. Forest Pharmaceuticals. I was one of their reps for about 10 years. Are you familiar with them?

John O --thanks for the reply. Everyone says my numbers are high because of the number of fish. I keep going back to :"why didn't the previous owner have any problems?" I have his journal, and nitrates and phosphates were never a problem if they were it was very short term corrected by a water change and maybe some Amquel. I'm doing everything that he did and the way that he did it. He had everything written down for me so that there would not be any guess work as to what to do since I'm a newbie.

I'm just frustrated and disappointed because of all the problems. I want to start having fun with it and not dreading it.

I'll keep in touch once I get my chemistry numbers.

Thanks again everyone, Cindy

Gotta go pick my husband up at the airport. Talk to ya'll later.

 

Cindy,

I think this is more a question of perception

I don't really believe there is a problem at all. In fact I would do nothing except for observe and enjoy your tank. My suggestions were simply my opinion of what I think you should do to reduce the phosphates.


Just a tip too, wash/scrub out the plastic container in your Phosphate kit with some white vinegar. Do another test and let us know if the reading varies.

John

 

Cindy,

If you are following his notes when he had the tank then did he mention what he was feeding the fish?

How many fish did he have in this tank compared to your 21 fish you have?

Also please add your tank information to your signature area so we don't have to keep asking you what size of tank etc.. you have.

I really don't like canister filters but JohnO mentioned to replace the filter media and filters regularly. To me this should be done every week.

You said you ordered new test kits so we can compare them once you get them in.
Clean the test tubes would help but I don't think it would change the reading all that much.

After your water changes how do your test readings compare to the reads before the change? If now much different then it could be a bad test kit.

Are you using bio balls?
Are you using charcoal?
How long again has this be at your house?
What salt were you using before oceanic?

I don't think it is your sand bed unless your feeding habits were different then the person that had the tank. The number of fish he had compared to yours could also have an effect.

If you have had 2 deaths it could be caused by stress and the move etc... but hard to say one way or the other.

I have not seen oceanic salt have any trace of phosphates. The Nitrates can only be removed by water changes but you should not need to do them every week but your bio load is high so I believe this is the Nitrate issue.

I like more water volume and you may think about getting a bigger refugium.

Stay in contact
Dave

 

Holy smokes... this is a great one.

I'll add some more, what kind of sand are we talking about here Cindy?

What kind of clean up crew do you have for the sand?

Some may give me grief here, but ever use a light dose of a gravel vac when doing water changes?


matt

 

To get a sample out of the sand, you can create a little pocket with your finger and suck the water from there. One of my friends used a turkey baster to make a spot and drew water up with the turkey baster. Hope this helps.

I agree completely here. With such a high bioload, I think it will be hard to get away from the nitrates, unless, as stated, you increase your water volume.

I would also like to bring up another point. When the tank was moved, all the rock and sand were removed from the tank. The rock will see a little die off - creating more work for the bacteria to reduce. Also, if the sand was removed and placed back into the tank - I see this as another problem. The balance that was created by the different zones in the sand was upset. There is going to be some die off - for instance the anaerobic zone has hit air, so all the bacteria that reside in that zone will die off. I hope this makes sense.

No grief from me, Matt. I'm an advocte of stirring up the upper portion of the sand bed during water changes and siphoning off. This will help keep excess detritus from accumulating in the sand and sunk down to the bottom (hopefully prolonging the life of a sand bed). Restocking with detrivores often is another important factor. That is one of the downfalls of sand beds. They function by breaking down and moving down the end products, except the problem with having a tank.....there is a glass/acrylic bottom....it ends there and begins to build up. Most systems seem to get ~2 years before leaching occurs - more so depends on bioload, foods, and feeding habits.

I hope I'm not being discouraging, as I'm just trying to help understand. Even though the prior owner didn't have any issues - it was going to happen eventually if his husbandry was poor, IMO. You are doing great things for your tank right now. RO/DI, changing your feed, blowing off the rocks, and asking questions. I think you should forget what the previous owner did, and focus on what you are going to do to correct the problem.

 

[quote author=NaH2O link=board=Newbie;num=1086480105;start=0#14 date=06/07/04 at 05:10:30]
Even though the prior owner didn't have any issues - it was going to happen eventually if his husbandry was poor, IMO.  [/quote]

Great points everyone. I think the high bioload is certainly causing issues with the Nitrates. I however, think this would happen even if the husbandry was good.

It's Biochemistry. Most Phosphates we add to the tank stay there. Most are grabbed by the bacteria before they can be skimmed out. What the skimmer misses and the bacteria miss will be used as fertilizer for algae.

On one of your pictures, it looks like you have some cyanobacteria on your sand bed. Cyanobacteria is an excellent exporter of Phosphates. If you let that grow a while and then siphon it off, that will remove a lot of Phosphates.

 

What was the fish per gallon math again?
Is it 1 inch per gallon? so I am getting old and don't remember right off the top of my head.

 

[quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=Newbie;num=1086480105;start=0#13 date=06/07/04 at 04:30:08]Some may give me grief here, but ever use a light dose of a gravel vac when doing water changes?

matt[/quote]

Not me, I agree, there is probably a build up of rotting fish excrement etc that needs to be removed, albeit slowly.

John

 

For freshwater it is 1" of fish per 1 gallon.

For saltwater it is 1" of fish per 5 gallons. I also believe that is mature size.

 

O.K. guys!

Here are my numbers after about a 40 gl change:

temp81
pH 8.1
amonia 0
Salinity 1.023
Nitrite 0.1 or a little less
Nitrate about 40. Lower than before
Magnesium 1300
Phosphates 1.5-2 Had been 3 for a long time.
Alklinity 12 dKH
Calcium 490
That's everything that I tested for .
Looks a little better than what it has been running.

I didn't know about the cyano being good for phosphates. I've been trying to get rid of it as fast as it comes up. I guess I'll let it stay around awhile if it will help.

I think the sand is a agronite sugar sized sand. I have some large snails, and a very few small ones. I think my cleaner shrimp may have died, I haven't seen them in a long time. I've been told I need to order a good clean up crew and a cucumber. I've also have been told to stay away from it until my tank is better under control cause they will increase the bioload. What do you think?

I'm making more water tonight so I can do another water change tomorrow. I wasn't able to make the water last night. Too much was going on.

My husband feels like I'm wasting my time with the water changes and thinks I should just go ahead and replace the sand.

He doesn't know anymore about the hobby than me.

The previoius owner had about 25 fish. He fed them daily one frozen cube, a few flakes and a strip of nori. I think he did a weekly change or biweekly of around 1o gla. I'll have to look that up again. I may be thinking of someone else. He fed them DT everyother day. Coral Vite once weekly with a few drops of Lugols. Used selcon with the frozen cube. Used Bionic 1-2 as needed .Used carbon once per month for 3 days. I am also using carbon 3 days at a time. He said his skimmer always took care of any excess. (Aqua C EV 180).

I ordered the new test kits -Salifert almost 2 months ago. anad the new tests read just as high, so I'm finishing up the older kit. The other guy tested weekly.

I bought a Magnum 350 filter to use as needed. Just haven't figured out how to put it together yet. One of the piecec that goes over the tank (or in my case over the canopy, does not reach the water and that end has to be under water. I don't know . I guess I'll eventually figure it out.

I didn't do the phosphate sample from the sand. I'll try to do that tomorrow. My arms may not be long enough to reach the sand., but I'll try.

Hope I answered all of the questions, if not ask again.

Thanks for the guidance. Cindy