Fish scratching an rubbing with no visible issues

Discussion in 'Fish Diseases' started by gwhunter, Jan 22, 2011.

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  1. gwhunter

    gwhunter Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Eastern Connecticut
    Ok, so in my 210 fowlr(260g system total) I've noticed my fish scratching and rubbing on the glass and rocks. I've qt all my fish an all are eating and acting normal other than scratching. I did my last WC about two weeks ago. My parms are as follows: PH 8.4,NH3 0.25, nitrate 5.0, nitrite 0, sg 1.022 (alittle low I know). I'm not measuring anything else since it's not a reef (but do have all the other kits). Most of my test kits are a few months old. And I've brought samples to my lfs to confirm. I feed new life spectrum pellets, oceans nutritions spirilina and brine flakes as well as green nori sheets daily. I feed mysis/brine three times per week and angel cubes three times also. I've used paraguard in the past on infections but since I see nothing visible on any fish I'm not 100% sure what to treat with. My water temp is around 78-80. I've got garlic I could try soaking food but not sure that will help other than strengthening there immune system. I've also got cupramine on hand and could treat with that.

    I just replaced my carbon last week, I'm due to change my filter socks today and my skimmer (vertex 280 in) is skimming well and pulling the normal amount of green skimmate. I'm manually topping off with ro/di several times a week. My ro/di system is soon due for filter replacement. So what is my best course of immediate action. I was about to add more nuked rock this weekend but now I'm gonna hold off. I was leaning towards paraguard since it's easily removed. I also have new bottle of prazipro but I'm unsure how to dose the tank. I currently don't have a qt setup since there have been no new additions for some time 9 months. And since some of my fish are large and would need a huge qt. I'm going to treat the entire tank what ever I do. This tank has been running for about 2 yrs. I also bleach my filter socks in my washing machine when I clean them. I've been doing this since new.

    Thanks
    Matt
     
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  3. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    gwhunter

    sounds like you could have a parasitic problem possibly gill flukes, which are impossible to see as they reside in the fishes gills and are not visible

    if your 100% sure you dont ever want corals/ inverts in there, the copper based treatment should be effective

    not sure on the paraguard, never used it myself

    Steve
     
  4. 2in10

    2in10 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Ammonia of 0.25 could also be a problem.
     
  5. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

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    Occasional scratching isn't necessarily an issue, sometimes suspended particles can irritate them. Fine agronite is notorious for this. You said you were going to add more nuked rock. Did you just add some? Sometimes rock can also add loose particles to the water column or stir up the substrate when added. If something got stirred up, that could be the problem. If the 0.25 ammonia is correct though, that would be stressful and could certainly lead to infection. So, I think it depends on how bad the itching is and the circumstances. Also eating is the big key IMO, if they are eating normally, they are likely fine, but if feeding habits change, I would take that as a sign to treat immediately, or if the itching increases or at least does not begin to subside over the next day or so (assuming your not adding or disturbing anything).
     
  6. gwhunter

    gwhunter Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    I have added nothing except carbon but that was last weekend.
    I added the paragurd last night and will contine to monitor. I probably should have added the cupramine instead but since they're eating I didn't want to jump the gun(I always notice a reduced appetite with copper meds). I've used cupramine in the past and I was able to remove it to add inverts so I'm not too worried about that. My biggest issue with copper is making sure it's consistant at theraputic levels. This is difficult due to top off water being added. The light will be on in an hr so I'll see if the paraguard is working. I've seen my tangs rub occasionally in the past against the sand but the queen angel was rubbing with a vengence yesterday. So knew something was up. I should've done a water change then added the paraguard but you know what they say about hindsight. I'd really like to add some cleaner shrimp since they seem to be a real help in my reef but I'm pretty sure they'd be lunch before they reached the bottom of my tank. I'll grab some prime later today to detox any NH3 in there.

    I wish I could see exactly what I'm dealing with so I could take appropriate action. This not knowing is killing me.

    Matt:-/
     
  7. Corailline

    Corailline Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a dry heat, yeah right !
    Any disease/pathogens that your fish harbor are going to be exacerbated by the ammonia level. The level maybe 0.25 but could it have been higher before you captured that value.

    Sounds like you are doing the right things. With tangs I would venture to guess that it is Marine Ich, just not full blown causing the irritation.

    Because this is a large system with large fish have you considered a UV filter to assist with elemintating any free floating pathogens.
     
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  9. gwhunter

    gwhunter Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    It seems to be only effecting my queen angel, I noticed this am that one of his eye's are swollen. He's still eating but his fins seem a bit ragged today. I also noticed that my large sohal tang seems to be bullying everyone. I guess it was bound to happen given there. So now I'm wondering if this is a stress induced problem. Since the sohal is so large I have no other tank I can put him in. I'll see if my lfs can take him for now but they're not open till Tuesday. I really don't think it's Ich the tangs would be the first to show especially the hippo. The worst part of the whole thing is everyone was doing so well. As for the UV there not super effective at much of anything except algea control. Other's will dispute this but I've used them in the past(other tanks) and found no really evidence to validate there effectiveness.

    Matt:(
     
  10. amcarrig

    amcarrig Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Moved to the Fish Disease forum. Please only use the ASAP for true emergencies.