Discussion in 'Protein Skimmers' started by NittyGritty, Mar 7, 2011.
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All makes sense to me. ;D
I thought I might try and address a few of the questions posited in this thread.
We tested a number of different designs and all yielded the same result: greatly diminished contact time with only moderate reduction in turbulence. The diffusion of turbulence is handled far better using the resistance of the water, the distance to travel to the transition, and the transition itself. ER and RD skimmers have never suffered from turbulence issues for the very reason that these design parameters are "tuned" on all of our skimmer models. As I mentioned in the video series, bubble plates have there place, but the application is more the exception rather than the rule. If you are using a pump that is too big for the reaction chamber you pretty much have to use one to get a stable foam head in the neck, that doesn't make it better, just poorly designed.
Turning a pump on it's side in an effort to forcing the water to enter into the chamber at a level lower (i.e. into a bubble plate) than that of a pump used upright, even with an elbow, will increase back pressure on the pump. In a cylinder, every mm of water increases pressure incrementally and the pump discharge is where that back-pressure is realized. That is why the position of the pump on the body is so critical, especially in Re-Circulating configurations where the whole point is to optimize pump efficiency.
I have purposely not jump on the train with bubble plates, cones, and sicce pumps etc because they all have design flaws. I want to provide proven, tried and true products that offer both performance and value. I prefer to leave experimentation in the lab.
Hope those points help to clarify some of the questions posed in this thread.
i suggest octopus or similar brands they are always being updated for newer technology and the prices are ultra low.
I will post some formulas for you to review regarding head pressure related to skimmer pump applications. Hopefully that will clarify any confusion regarding that issue.
As for bubble plates and their usefulness, you are correct in that BK did first utilize the idea and that for a very good reason. They were building large diameter skimmers that were very short and needed to dissipate turbulence from multiple large pumps in a small place. Normally skimmers have reaction chambers with enough height to dissipate turbulence using a properly sized pump, but in a 20" diameter by 30"+/- tall skimmer using multiple RD pumps, a bubble chamber is a must if one is to achieve a stable foamate.
As for cone skimmers, bubble plates are a must because once again, there is not enough volume or fluid in the reaction chamber to diffuse the turbulence produced by the pump.
The bottom line is that if either of those "innovations" yielded a dramatic increase in skimmer performance we would have incorporated them into our design long ago.
It's Ames from Key West. Glad to see you on 3reef. I got your message about that old euro-reef you were gonna send me, but I've changed my mind again on sump design so now I'm leaning towards a HOB skimmer on the filter sock chamber.
This thread is hot! Please post those equations. Proof of concept is what separates us from the guys in togas.
Please do. You mentioned before head is realized at pump discharge, but it is realized at the impeller. If you are saying that by taking a discharge and turning 90 degrees and effectively lowering the discharge to a higher head pressure area... then that is not it. Still can't wrap my head around it. Even if there is a difference between cylinder and sump... the same difference is there regardless.
You mentioned this in your video and I thought it odd... however it may all be moot. I don't know of many skimmers that turn the pump on it's side... lowering the discharge for coupling. Most pumps need a stand to raise them. The lower you put the discharge into the body, the more difficult to separate bubbles. Certainly all the space saver designs discharge straight up. A lot of Sicce pumps rotate the volute to the side...
but again it's my assertion that head is at the impeller and changing the discharge 90 changes nothing. I also still find it quite hard to believe that turning the volute 90 changes it more significantly that putting a elbow off the discharge of the pump.
I have played with a couple of skimmers that had a vertical discharge into the skimmer with a elbow to reduce turbulence. Taking it off actually improved things.... but it also changed the plate that was not designed for it.
... and to add... if your designs are what they are, and you use the the pumps you use, and you find that the pump performs better "not on it's side".... I still don't get the importance because plenty of pumps out there to pair to plenty of volumes to get the performance needed.
Sorry if I'm bugging you.. I just like this stuff. I appreciate what ever you have to share with me.
Bumping the dust off.
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How 'bout dem formulas?
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I just bought an INS80 for my 65 mixed from my LFS and love this baby.....best foam producer I have had in over 20 years of SW tanks...it is easy to adjust and I had it pulling skim in 24hrs.
I have had no issues with excess bubbles being returned to the DT
Also it is extremly quiet IMO all I hear now is the overflow box.
IMO it is worth every penny.
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