difference between nh3 and nh4

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by nc208082, Feb 4, 2011.

to remove this notice and enjoy 3reef content with less ads. 3reef membership is free.

  1. nc208082

    nc208082 Zoanthid

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    Toronto
    This may seem silly but what is the difference between these two, i have read that nh3 is the toxic form and nh4 being more stable, is there something that will cause nh4 and not nh3 or vice versa, I want a better understanding of ammonia the types, what they do and how they are caused and remedied, if anyone knows.
    Thanks
     
  2. Click Here!

  3. kstafford003

    kstafford003 Feather Star

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    769
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Using the help of bacteria and plants: ammonia > nitrite > nitrate > nitrogen

    This is what nitrite will do to your fish.

    Fish Disease - Nitrite Poisoning

    "Also known as 'brown blood disease' because the blood turns brown from a increase of methemoglobin. However, methemoglobin causes a more serious problem than changing the color of the blood. It renders the blood unable to carry oxygen, and the fish can literally suffocate even though there is ample oxygen present in the water."

    You can often see ill effects at low levels of nitrite.

    Nitrate Poisoning - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki

    "Nitrate is far less toxic than ammonia or nitrite. But it can still kill if high enough. As levels climb the existing fish become used to it at first, levels can rise to 100ppm or even 150ppm before the fish start to become ill and die as their immune systems become depressed and they get infections they can't fight off. Fish species vary enormously on the levels of nitrates they can withstand. It is standard practise in the hobby to try to keep nitrate levels below ~50ppm with 20ppm or lower being ideal levels.
    Owning a nitrate test kit is one essential item a fish owner should never be without."

    Water changes can get rid of nitrate as well as plants and anearobic bacteria which can colonise under 4 inches of sand.


    Mostly nitrites come from ammonia being transformed into nitrite. And mostly nitrates come from nitrites being transformed into nitrates. This can happen rather quickly if you have rotting food, fish poo, or dead/rotting anything.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. irr0001

    irr0001 Purple Tang

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,822
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama
    NH4 is the ammonium ion while NH3 is just ammonia. NH4 is just NH3 dissolved in water.

    Edit: it goes a lot more in depth..but that's the main idea.
     
  5. m2434

    m2434 Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,471
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  6. nc208082

    nc208082 Zoanthid

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,113
    Location:
    Toronto
    Okay so that makes some sense to me. I've been doing constant checks and have repeatedly gotten zero for nitrites about 10 ppm for nitrates zero for nh3 and .1-.2 for nh4. Tank is 5 months old. Ph 8.1 temp 76-77 alk is 5. Calcium is 300 i just did a big water change 40% to try and remove the nh4 but even after that I'm still getting a reading. Fish and corals look healthy. No signs of struggling to breathe. What could be causing the nh4?