Cycling

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by trent51593, Feb 19, 2008.

to remove this notice and enjoy 3reef content with less ads. 3reef membership is free.

  1. trent51593

    trent51593 Coral Banded Shrimp

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Ohio
    Tangster: so let me get this straight, you dont use any live rock in your tank. (eventually your base rock will become LR after time correct). As far as high jacking this thread, like Tangster said i do not care, the more information that people talk about the better for me, so that way i can read about what everyone else has problems with and how to do things the correct way. As far as needing LR in your tank to have ammonia, i bought base rock that wasnt very clean and there for i do have a die off and ammonia in the. I did although leave the rock in there for around 2 or 3 days then took it out and scrubbed it under water, it was starting to get slimmy and im sure that it wasnt a good thing. After scrubbing they are no longer slimmy. Again any information you have to offer is much appreciated on my side.
     
  2. Click Here!

  3. amcarrig

    amcarrig Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,219
    Location:
    CT
    The base rock that you bought most likely doesn't have anything on it to decay, therefore, no ammonia. Then again, my idea of base rock may differ from yours? To me, base rock is dead, dry rock that is pretty much sterile. Is that what you've got?
     
  4. bmshehan

    bmshehan Fu Manchu Lion Fish

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,904
    Location:
    Columbus, Indiana
    Have you gotten a Damsel yet? How about some pics, I know they might seem boring (with the tank at this stage) but I like seeing what is being discussed.

    This thread is like Saltwater tank geek wars, think we can get a pilot;D I hear NBC is pretty desperate! Would be better than Battle of the Choirs!
    LOL, I love it, lots of good info! I always like a good old fashioned debate!!;D
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. reef_guru

    reef_guru Humpback Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Location:
    joliet,il
    LMAO, karma
     
  6. trent51593

    trent51593 Coral Banded Shrimp

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Ohio

    Well the base rock I got was dead but it had some crustations on it (like dead open pores where something had grown on it then died) i guess thats what you would call them. The rock also had like shells on it?? They were mostly a greenish color from the algea im guessing.

    bmshehanHave you gotten a Damsel yet? How about some pics, I know they might seem boring (with the tank at this stage) but I like seeing what is being discussed.

    This thread is like Saltwater tank geek wars, think we can get a pilot;D I hear NBC is pretty desperate! Would be better than Battle of the Choirs!
    LOL, I love it, lots of good info! I always like a good old fashioned debate!!;D

    No i havent got one yet, in a way i wanted to get the tank full on and running (hooking my sump up is the last thing to do) before i got one, and then I have to find a yellow tailed Damsel. Theres only one or two good LFS that sells saltwater fish, and there about 30 to 40 min. away so there not to local lol. I can try and get some pics of the tank if you would like, theres not much to it right at this point i only have about 60 lbs of rock and it dont look like much, ( i dont like to show off my stuff when i think it dont look good lol) so i do need more rock.

    This is to everyone: do you think i should pick up at least one nice size peice of LR from the store this weekend or no, remember my ammonia is high at the time and i was waiting for it to go down, not really sure what it is at this time i havent checked it in about 2 or 3 days. Was sorta told not to bc its just a waste of test results, (which sounds good to me). I would be lieing if i said that im not in no big hurry to start loading my tank i know it takes awhile to cycle, but i can resist the temtations lol. Well let me know what you all think of my tank when i get some pics of it, and remeber im a newb and any and all advice on aquascaping or anything would be helpful.
     
  7. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Location:
    Va/Ct
    There is or was maybe gone now ? But they where located in the Keys and another one near to Tampa :) look they had a name like that .. But they would take a truck to the Quarry near there or any quarry in Florida as thats all they can dig up besides water . But they will haul tons of it last I get a load it was like 13.00 a ton then they take it out to a leased area from the Fed or St. Government park land and set it on the bottom for up to a yr and rotate it in and out. then it went from dead dry base old buried corals reef to live rock.. They shipped it in box's of water to keep the stink down and try and allow some of the stuff live long enough for the end user to see for their $$$ plus shipping per pound. And only to have it die and pollute their tanks.. Then came the well it needs to be cycled and cleaned ..and on to yadda yadda I get tired of talking about it really .. But Having seen tons of the nasty stuff wipe out tanks and or cause problems I left it behind why use it ?

    But I would like to debate anyone on the merits of L/R and what it's benefits are ? all I ever get is bio diversity period.. I have used it and several different types and from several regions of the world .. And that being used in any new system opposed to anyone I just used base dead rock in was none existent at all.

    What they don't tell you is the rock is really used for aerobic and anaerobic bacterias .. This is to allow you to set up and stock a full reef in days rather then months .. And this all came about when they smelled the money and people paying 12.00 a pound for wet rock did not want to hear no corals for you and just wait for 3 months then start slow . Now what is overlooked with this method is is all just to get your money now and later.. First off lets say that you have a 10,000 gallon system.. and you toss in 5 tons of L/R and that rock was removed from the ocean and put in tank with in a hr.. all that bacteria on and in that rock has to die off unless just by chance there is the exact perfect level of bio demand on that rock to support all that bacteria needs for food to need to live.. I guess it could happen ? But I'd give you some long odds it won't.

    Now all that bacteria in and on the rocks as well as all the little worms and pest and everything really is dead on the rock it has to die from the water conditions and when it dies it just consumes all the oxygen in the water there in with the system of 10,000 gallons and then you get the build up of the sulfides and methanes , they get to going and then you have a rotten smelling soup that reeks of death .. hence the cycling of your new rock.. with strong water flows and super skimming A tank of live/dead rock except for a very very few tough bacteria now You tell me the benefits ? It was your money and tank..

    But getting past that then after a few weeks with skimming and good filtration the smell fades and the water clears and then you can wait for the bacteria to grow back to balanced and proper colony sizes that are now needed to support the amount of waste of ammonia and nitrates from the major die off.. Remember its 10,000 gals.. here .. But once that equilibrium is reached and the bacteria are happy and healthy and balanced unless you have a fish or something living in there and to keep a certain and constant supply of waste on those finite amount of bacteria . Then they are still going to die off until they reach the number needed to keep the demand of that fish only and that amount no more or no less . Add another fish they have to increase in their numbers remove the original fish they die off again.. Now you can choose to toss in a hunk of shrimp or dead cow or horse ? to keep them happy with a demand and reason to live But how many will ? And as the bacteria handle the load you tossed in to keep them happy is met they will increase or decrease in their numbers to adjust to meet that demand.

    As I said I did a Pure Berlin yrs ago using all dead base rock and grew my bacteria as needed using all ded rock with obe little fish and let it cycle for 3 to 4 months and in my system the Berlin worked better then it did better in the ones did using dieing L/R . I helped to set up their Berlin system up and Not at $ 13.00 a pound for Fiji at the time was the hot lick , Tonga had yet to be trotted out :) And I still choose to grow my own bacteria nd fauna and avoid the killer pest that can and do come in o L/R and I use my money for really needed options and needs.. But I just slowly added the sish and corals ran very well from 87 to 95 or so. never a hitch just got bored with the bare bottom look..

    As for being a Geek ?? been called alot of thing's and the only reason I even bother to post this stuff is try and help some from wasting their time and money.. I know what I do works as do all who ever tired the methods .. But at the end of the day so do and some don't But its not my money ot tank nor time..
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Click Here!

  9. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Location:
    Va/Ct

    Oh never disturb the cycling let it ride the bacteria will come and get it balanced get a single little the smallest healthy little yellow tailed blue damsel you can find and toss in there and let it go a few months. His job is to add the bio demand for the bacteria and to keep that demand at a constant and steady daily level something a dead hunk of meat can never do . Thats about what you did toss in dead meat on the rock ..
     
  10. trent51593

    trent51593 Coral Banded Shrimp

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Ohio
    OK thanks Tangster that explains a lot. I do see your point on buying LR, i do think it is a waste of money if you can grow your own bacteria, why buy the bacteria?? there is no need to if you can just do it all yourself and save a ton of money. In the around 60 lbs of rock that i have i averaged it out to be about 1 dollar and 32 cents a pound so i did save a lot of money. thats a lot better than paying $10 or so for LR at the LFS. Any more suggestions please let me know, thanks for all the information you have given me, although it seems like its just a notch in a pie as far as what i need to know lol. But im gettin there as we all have.
     
  11. wastemanagement

    wastemanagement Eyelash Blennie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,252
    Location:
    Quebec City
    If your using steril/ dead base rock and you add your live sand and water the tank shouldhave some bactria in it from the sand correct?
    So in essence the addition of the fish is to add a source of a waste for the bacteria in the sand to feed on and spread throun out the tank right?
    So what is the reason we cycle with live fish and not a cocktail shrimp/Prawn as we are only in need of somethink to decay and feed the bacteria?
     
  12. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Location:
    Va/Ct
    Would you toss a hunk of dead flesh into your tank now and walk away ? That meat will increase the demand on the then presents of bacterias in the system to handle the right now demand.. You toss in a dead animal they will have to increase in numbers to meet the sudden add demand! But as the extra demand is met they will then have to die off to. And as they die off then its another problem added to the aerobic bacteria as they dieing buddies suck up lots of dissolved oxygen .. Thats why I use a live animal to keep a steady constant day to day level bio demand . Many seem to think an aquarium can some how store up a little extra bank of denitryfing bacteria and add tons of Bio balls or rocks ?? They can't be stores or saved like money.. They increase or decrease as their demand dictates..

    So I use a little live fish to do mine always have always will and until I ever hit a problem I will just toss it in the and when his job is done he gets to just eat swim and live until he dies what a bargain :) A rough day in a cycling tank is better then a go day on the real reef running for your life .
     
    1 person likes this.