Crypto (Marine Ich) and Garlic

I really do wish to start a serious discussion about the effectiveness of garlic on cryptocaryon (marine ich) and see if anyone has something to contribute other than the anecdotal evidence constantly brought to message boards.

Does anyone know of any variety of scientific study done on garlic, even not directly relating to cryptocaryon? I have a few that I've seen articles about, but none relate even to general protozoan parasite infections such as cryptocaryon irritans, the protozoa in question that causes people grief constantly in aquariums.

 

I think garlic is used to get fish eating when they are too sick and have no appetite - so then it helps give the fish strength. But I don't think the garlic actually has any healing properties.

 

1+ I'm with Kacy here. Garlic doesnt hace any sort of healing capabilites , however it is used to entice eating on a fish so that it's immune system strengthens. This will help him fight off the disease..

A good analogy... Kinda like giving a person with a cold chicken nuddles.. It will not heal them directly but it might give their immune system a bust to help them fight it off.

 

The thing is, that perspective isn't exactly correct either. Garlic is known to have some effect when dealing with some types of bacteria. The problem is that crypto isn't a bacteria; it's a protozoan, in a entirely different kingdom (animals, plants, fungii, prokaryotes, archaea, bacteria in order of complexity, just as a refresher) of organisms than the things that have been tested with garlic.

Also, garlic hasn't been proven to increase feeding response; it's speculated that it may help because it does have a very strong odor the fish pick up and go investigate, and they then see the food there. This implies it's not an effect that will actually help fish that are already too sick to move for food.

 

allicin stability - Google Search

When one considers how unstable allicin is and what processes it would have to endure to make it into the fishes skin, I doubt it really does anything unless you crushed the garlic yourself and immediately used it.

 

Some articles on Marine Ich follow my comments.

First, many of the comments don't only apply to garlic, they apply to many ich medicines that are sold as well. Who has heard this statement? "I used garlic or XYZ product and the ich left?" Really? Are you sure? Then how come a bunch of people can use the same product and it does absolutely nothing for their ich? The answer, on your fish, the parasite was in a stage in it's life cycle to drop and reproduce. In other people's tanks where garlic or XYZ product didn't work, the parasite wasn't to that stage in it's life cycle yet. It's really as simple as that folks.



The only reef safe product that has been proven scientifically to affect protozoans is Metronidazole. I would get large quantities from my vet but Seachem also sells it in smaller amounts.

After saying all of the above, do I use garlic? Yep. Why you ask? Because it's been my experience that often fish like it's smell. I've had particular fish that didn't want to eat and I've seen them eat with the addition of garlic.

Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich)

Garlic versus 'Marine Ich' by Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.

News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans (Part 1 of 5) by Terry Bartelme

News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans (part 2 of 5) by Terry Bartelme

News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans (3 of 5) by Terry Bartelme

News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans (4 of 5) by Terry Bartelme

News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans (5 of 5) by Terry Bartelme

Treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans in Aquaria by Dr. Harry W. ****erson, B.V.Sc. Ph.D.

Hyposalinity Treatment

Diseases in Fish: Part 5 (Chilodonella cyprinii, Cryptocaryon irritans) by Shawn Prescott

Diseases in Fish: Part 4 (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) by Shawn Prescott (Freshwater)

Marine Ich Part 1 by Steven Pro

Marine Ich Part 2 by Steven Pro

 

Following along on this one, After losing 3 fish this past week. I tried Garlic, Fresh and the Garlic Guard sold In LFS. Herbtanna (Natural Product) I also tried that Smelled like Lemon furniture polish, Never again! I think did more harm than good. I have had sucess In the past with Garlic guard bringing a tang back to health that had Ich but no proof that the garlic did the deed of healing.
Bill

 

Inwall, that's a serious amount of reading to do; thanks for the crazy large contribution. I'm gonna need a little bit to go through that lol.

Well, this is the exact dilemma that has seriously permeated the hobby to such a large extent. I'm reaching out trying to get some scientific evidence either for or against garlic with this thread, but anyone who does know of a study about garlic and crypto hasn't shown up yet. There's a myth and no mythbusters willing to do something scientifically sound to check it out.

Thought: Will Mythbusters take on something like this? It has nothing to do with explosions, so I'm doubtful, but you can always hope ;D

 

interesting topic

my feelings on this subject are

I use Garlic Guard , and have anecdotal evidence of fish that seemed to get better, fight of the parasite

now Im happy to admit that the evidence presented by Inwall on this thread and on other occasions does indicate that in all probabilty the fish was going to fight it off anyway irrespective of the garlic

but that has not stopped me using it to be honest

that doesnt mean to say the next time I am at a LFS and see a Powder blue covered in spots Im going to buy it, believing that a few feedings with garlic soaked foods will sort it out - because I know it wont

a HT and Cuprazin on the other hand would be a better bet (no garuantees though) IME

when I 1st started using garlic many years ago, the myth was that the flavour permeated the fish and this was distateful to parasites ( as an aside where I live now, they say the more spicey foods you eat the less chance you have of being bitten by mosquittos for the same reason )

later that was dismissed as nonsense in respect of the fish / garlic situation -
Im not sure about the spices and the mossie situation, I do know I eat a lot of curries and dont get pestered as much as other members of my family

healthy well fed fish, can fight off parasitic infection - both sides of the debate would agree on that

garlic appeals to fish that are finnicky - Inwall stated that above

fish that are in the early stages of parasitic infection may be knocked off their food and the addition of garlic may negate that situation, get them eating again and building up their strenght

Im primarily a coral keeper these days
I like to give the fish I keep a fighting chance of survival
but Im not willing to sacrifice my corals in order to improve their odds

thus I feed with garlic supplemented foods, have had a few fish with spot, that stopped having spot

the main thing for me is that whilst Im doing that, Im not going to be doing something else that may or may not work for me ( depends on the speed/ severity of the outbreak, Im sure we have all had fish that looked great one day and like an explosion in a pepper factory the very next day?)


Steve

 

I use garlic too...it's healthy. I use it for myself, I use it for my fish. Remember, just because a little is healthy, that doesn't mean a lot is even more healthy....in fact, quite the opposite. Unlike water soluble supplements where an overdose is simply excreted out, an overdoes of fat soluble supplement is stored. Some componenets of garlic are water soluble and most are fat soluble so an overdose is possible.

I hope you also supplement your foods with HUFAs and vitamins in addition to the garlic. In particular Vitamin C which is about as unstable as Allicin. (Ever notice that your multi-vitamin has 700% of your RDA? That's how it was brand new at the factory. By the time you swallow that same pill it might be providing 25% of the RDA. However, if you're taking a brand new pill, you won't overdose, it's water-soluble and you'll simply excrete the excess).