Corals wont stay alive

+1 sushi girl, computer john and ofcourse caroiline. I dont have as near experience as these guys, but all i know is "go slow, let it grow". My .2 cents suggestions would be if you dont have a lot of corals in ur tank, i would suggest to start from scratch. You can bank your current corals with your friend or somebody in ur marine community. I would definitley recommend using RO/DI either from your LFS or get a cheap unit from BRS. RO/DI can do wonders for your tank. Trust me like everyone else i am telling you what has worked for each one us. Please no scratching the rock or anything. Being in the line of biochemist you should know the sensitivity involved in keeping different biodiversity in ur aquarium. Also go for SALIFERT test kits for mag, ca, dkh and nitrate. You will have pretty accurate readings. Good luck.

 

Ignoring the manufactures goblygook, unfortunately the working definition of "no problem" in this hobby is it means when added it doesn't instantly kill everything. Have you researched this compound yourself? You apparently know quite a bit more than anyone else about it. From a number of searches using a number of journal databases and there is absolutely no information available with regards to marine organisms we keep in our reef aquariums.

The best information I can find is described here.
Poly(oxyethylene) (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene dichloride - toxicity, ecological toxicity and regulatory information

It is listed up to "very highly toxic" for some organisms, with toxic dose in the parts per billion for some freshwater fish,such as Rainbow trout and for all phytoplankton listed. While there isn't specific information on the phytoplankton component dinoflagellates, based on the best available information, these coral symbionts are likely to be effected as well to some degree.

Well, there is 4.5% which apparently is enough to kill many forms of nuisance algae. Based on the results listed above, it does not seem to be all that selectively toxic Also, there is no information available about how effectively it is removed, so accumulation is possible even if an individual dose is not an issue.



Look, it's your tank, you can do what you want, I was not trying to get into a debate about AlgaeFix. If it was me, I'd start by ruling out all possible causes. AlgaeFix is possibly stressing some of your livestock and therefore is a potential issue that should be ruled out.

 

hey m2434 you know what i recommend for the algae problem..... one guess! ...... a UV sterilizer! ;D

 

Ha ha Maybe, although if the corals are dying of starvation, then killing their food source will be an added stressor ;D

 

I know some praise alaefix but for me it was no good. I could not keep macro algae alive in my fuge for months and months after I stopped dosing. Aswell as I noted polyp extension was way less compared to their usual.I sugguest buying an ro di. Unit and doing some larger wc.

 

Look here's the thing... I used to be a biochem/molecular biology major at PSU. I have now since switched to neuroscience with a focus on neuorpharmacology which as you may or may not know is just about the same thing as biochem except exclusively dealing with interactions in the brain.
You don't see me telling people off because I'm in a "prestigious major in college."

Now my point is that I know and respect everyone on this site no matter what their profession may be. In fact, when someone comes along and flaunts their "smarts" a lot of people in here intentionally ignore them. There is a big difference between smarts and intelligence and you are clearly ignoring all of the intelligent individuals on here that have the YEARS of experience you do not. A book or directions can tell you one thing, but a person who has already been there and done that knows much much better what to do than a piece of paper ever will!
So I recommend listening up and taking some advice from the intelligent and experienced individuals here...


Also, being a prestigious biochemistry major I am sure you have already considered this... How long is the half life of the active ingredient in algefix? Judging by some members comments I would be led to think that it stays active for a fair amount of time as they have not been able to keep macros for months afterwards. Then based on this observation one could then conclude that the concentration of active ingredient has been building up over time and therefore be present at toxic concentrations in your tank.

 

lol well better turn the skimmer off to if corals are dieing of starvation. ;D

 

I want to debate with pink4miss as I always enjoy doing so ;D , however, to stay on topic a bit, I'll add this first LOL. I had some time to do more research. So, I was trying to find the recommended dosing for Algaefix. It looks like 1ml per 10g? So, 4.5 parts per hundred = 4.5*10000 ppm = 45000 ppm. A gallon is about 3785ml. So, you have 45000ppm / (10 * 3785) = 1.19 ppm. From the information I posted previously, 44ug/l is enough to kill a rainbow trout (or .044ppm), so, one dose of algaefix would raise the concentration 1.19/ 0.044 = 27 times higher than this. Of course we don't typically keep a rainbow trout, but pods, another important food source, feed on phytoplankton such as diatoms. Many of the more planktonic forms of phytoplankton are skimmed out quickly and have minimal abundance in our tanks, so, lets look at diatoms. According to the data, a reduction in diatom populations is seen at about 83 ug/L. So, this is 1.19/.083 = 14 times higher than that.... And this doesn’t consider accumulation.

Just trying to make sure facts stated are accurate However, based on the data, I wouldn't say " there is barely enough of this chemical contained in one bottle to do even the slightest damage to a reef “ I’m sure there is plenty in an entire bottle to do so LOL. Very likely it isn't going to directly result in mortality if following the recommended dosage, but stressors result in loss of fitness and compound ... Again, I wouldn't assume it's "safe" just because it doesn’t result in instant, direct mortality.


Now pink4miss:

It certainly has been suggested (see myth 17) :
Mything the Point, Part Three: Conclusion - Reefkeeping.com

Likely the corals aren’t dying of starvation though. I'm skeptical a protein skimmer is anywhere near 100% efficient at skimming bacterioplankton. I don't believe that the cell surfaces would be amphipillic enough for the skimmer to do so. Nevertheless, skimmate does increase substantially when carbon dosing. So, it is skimming some. However, this is likely more bacterial byproducts and dying/decaying bacteria. Once bacteria dies, it begins to decay and all sorts of very amphiphillic proteins are released, which likely are skimmed with closer to 100% efficiency.

Also, IIRC, it's been estimated the majority of corals can derive up to 95% of their nutrients from light. This explains why reefkeepers often have lights powerful enough to provide par values higher than the daily averages typically found on all but the shallowest reefs. However, deriving energy from zooxanthellae has a price. For one, there is are limitations. With too much light the coral will reach photosaturation and will not be able to utilize the excess light. At even higher levels will reach photoinhibition and actually shut down PSII to protect the cells. However, this is rare in all but the highest lighting schemes, although given corals may be more sensitive. More often the coral responds by allowing more zooxanthellae growth. Zoox is brown, so this decreases the overall colloration, and in extreme conditions can even make the coral appear brown.

There is another price as well though, ignoring coloration, appearance etc.., while there are mechanisms to compensate for lack of food, deriving energy from zoox leads to increased O2 radicals. This may not be fatal, however, is still stressful for the organism and will decrease its fitness. This is a key point, there is a difference between death and loss of fitness. Although they can be related as a less fit coral, has less defenses against disease and other insults.

How much of a difference does it make? Probably not too much, as people keep very nice tanks with UV. However that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t make a difference. While this is a very brief summary, there are very strong theoretical considerations to suggest it can and does make some difference.

 

lol.. Thank you, but we all stated little to no knowledge in this hobby. I had a cichlid tank before for 3 years as well as used to build & maintain massive holding tanks for lobsters. Just with lobsters, you need to have chillers to keep the water cold. My water changes, I used a 3" hose with a gas fired pump & at high tide get 2 vats of water, once a week not fun.

We are always learning from others, regardless how long we've been doing it. ;D

 

Dingo buddy and I thought no one noticed... LOL.. You nailed that one my friend. Yeah when people get real quite, it's a tell tail sign.