Building a Weir style Overflow

Discussion in 'I made this!' started by dx7fd2, Jul 1, 2004.

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  1. dx7fd2

    dx7fd2 Sea Dragon

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    John,

    You can match the overflow rate to the pump if you know the exact flow of the return and compensate for it with the diameter of the overflow pipe, too much for me!!!  ;D

    I'll go with a ball valve on the return pump. I know the pump will out perform the overflow, therefore, I teed off the return line with a ball valve back into the return area of the sump, and I can run the return wide open. That way I can match the flow visually not with a bunch of calculation of pipe diameter versus the flow of the return minus the head restrictions.
    [smiley=thinking2.gif]​

    I suppose if the overflow out performed the return pump you would have to restrict the overflow rate with a ball valve...Not for me...I'll take the easy way out!!!!
    [smiley=upsidegrin.gif] [smiley=yelrotflmao.gif] [smiley=wink3.gif]​

    Thanks Inwall!!! I'll be posting a complete thread on my tank setup, which is all DIY, in the near future!!! ;) BTW I grew up in Webster Groves right across the street from Webster College. :D
     
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  3. JohnO

    JohnO Moderator

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    Thanks, That was my point exactly, you MUST control at least one of the water flows or you are in trouble. It's probably a different matter with a device that you buy, in that the manufacturer has already done some testing. :)

    John
     
  4. Birdlady

    Birdlady Finback Whale

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    Ooooh, hey DX....You have a great idea there!!!

    I had always tweaked the return pump with a ball valve, causing back pressure.....
    Never thought about putting a "T" in there...

    So how that works is, you divert excess flow through the "T" back into the sump? Thus leaving the return flow without back pressure ...
    "T" comes out of the pump and ball valve is NOT on the return line to the tank but IS on the the other part of the "T" and you open or close it untill you find the equilibrium? Yes?
     
  5. dx7fd2

    dx7fd2 Sea Dragon

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    You've got it Birdlady... [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]I am doing the same to my skimmer...it turns out it isn't necessary, there, but I didn't know until I tested the skimmer/pump combo.

    I like the idea of having no back pressure on the return pump plus this gives you complete control and probably less heat from the return pump!! ;)
     
  6. dx7fd2

    dx7fd2 Sea Dragon

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    Yeah, John, the manufacturers have all that stuff specced out for them by the slide rule guys!!
     
  7. Birdlady

    Birdlady Finback Whale

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  9. JohnO

    JohnO Moderator

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    [quote author=dx7fd2 link=board=DIY;num=1088694760;start=15#24 date=07/26/04 at 16:40:42]Yeah, John, the manufacturers have all that stuff specced out for them by the slide rule guys!![/quote]

    That's what I thought too :)

    Even if I had that sort of system ( manufactured ) I think I would encorporate your idea :)

    John
     
  10. Chris Jones

    Chris Jones Feather Duster

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    [quote author=dx7fd2 link=board=DIY;num=1088694760;start=15#20 date=07/26/04 at 15:35:16]I suppose if the overflow out performed the return pump you would have to restrict the overflow rate with a ball valve...Not for me...I'll take the easy way out!!!!
    [smiley=upsidegrin.gif] [smiley=yelrotflmao.gif] [smiley=wink3.gif]​

    John O and DX7,
    I did alot of research on this when I was looking into converting my 55 gal that was non drilled. and I was worried about the whole flooding the house crisis and here is what I found:
    As in DX's case, his pump outdoes the return, he has to have the throttle he describes on the return back to sump or his pump will outperform till the rug is wet even if the overflow is working perfectly.
    If you have a overflow that outperforms the return pump then you never have a problem, and John, pay attention cause here is where I help you with the dilema I think you still have with how this can work.
    1) when we talk about capacity to return water there are two variables to consider with DX's model. One is how much water can flow through the tunnel which he has made for the closed siphon going over the tank's side, and Two, how big is the drain return pipe leading to the sump.
    Now John, if you go back and look at DX's pics, you will see the larger box that goes on the outside of tank but it is still missing two componants, one more partition and the bulkhead for the drain pipe.
    Look at this diagram in this link and you will see what i mean.
    http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/tank/overflow.html
    You can see that the drain pipe cannot keep pulling a suction on the tank as there is a 2" partition the water has to flow over first. the only time the pipe will draw a suction is if the water is spilling over the final partition.
    So now you can see that when water stops pushing from the tank to exit to the sump, it will stop pushing water over that last partition, therefore the drain has no effect on the continued draining of the tank.
    At the same time, that very same partition keeps the outside half of the siphon from getting air in or breaking the water lock over the tank's edge. and you can also see from the drawing, that the inside collection cup will have a similar lock on the other side of the siphon.
    As an added measure that the siphon will restart, DX has said that he intends to have a power head sucking on the siphon to eliminate any air in top. :p

    Wow what a mouthful,  ;D hope this helps in the grande mosiac.
     
  11. JohnO

    JohnO Moderator

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    Thanks Doctor, it's as clear as mud now :)

    OK, but did you install it? And do you ever have to adjust the flow?

    John
     
  12. Matt Rogers

    Matt Rogers Kingfish

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    What's the prob John? Are you watching American TV? ;D
    Ben that was a good post. I never paid that much attention to the partition in the box before. Seems to make sense to me.