anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substrate?

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

The ammonia could be from messing with the substrate. What I always recommend when doing a conversion to sand it to leave much of the old active CC in there in panty hose or filter sock, etc.. and after being in there with the new sand for a while, you can start to remove it.

The logic is that you are trying to seed the new stuff with bacteria from the old.

To just rip out the old substrate and put in the new is a major shock.

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

[quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=General;num=1083728275;start=15#20 date=05/06/04 at 10:53:58]The ammonia could be from messing with the substrate. What I always recommend when doing a conversion to sand it to leave much of the old active CC in there in panty hose or filter sock, etc.. and after being in there with the new sand for a while, you can start to remove it.

The logic is that you are trying to seed the new stuff with bacteria from the old.

To just rip out the old substrate and put in the new is a major shock.[/quote]

Matt, his ammoina reading have been like this for months. please check his other threads and help us out here.

The old CC and the recent water changes IMO are what is causing this.

New2Salts2 do you have a phosphate test? would like to see the reading of that if you do.

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

Huh.. well I still think ripping out substrate without a transition is risky, don't you?

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

Mind if I chime in.
I think John had a great Idea about removing some water to a container and put an airstone in it. Let it sit over night and test for PH
Has anyone tested the Water source, My understanding is it is not RO/DI. I would test it for everything. including Iron.
New2salt I'm not sure were your from but try and get a city report on your water.
I also agree with Matt, After ripping out the CC it's going to take some time for the tank to stabilize.

so this is exactly what I would do step by step

Perform test suggested by John but
X3
3 Clean containers
1 with water from your tank
1 with newly mixed salt
1 with just water
airstone all for a couple of hours and test
continue with airstone for 2 days and then test

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

[quote author=new2salt2 link=board=General;num=1083728275;start=15#19 date=05/06/04 at 09:27:43]cleaned test kits and still same reading.

calc 550PPM
alk 5
amonia .25
trate and trite at 0
ph 8.6

have removed half substrate prior to this thread now sits just enough to cover my tank bottom.

SG iss at 1.024[/quote]


Thank you for that, did you try the PH test with the aerated water?  I will explain my thoughts on this a little later today.

John

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

[quote author=Matt Rogers link=board=General;num=1083728275;start=15#22 date=05/06/04 at 11:22:33]Huh.. well I still think ripping out substrate without a transition is risky, don't you?[/quote]

He did do it a little to fast and did it over 4 days I believe. He was lucky that it did not spike higher then was it was before he did this but what is done is done and we still need to figure out why his calcium and alk and pH are staying so high.

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

Oh and this tank is over a year old....
It does not look like it ever stablized as he was doing water changes every 3 to 4 days.
with his readings so high and pH so high his tank was snowing.

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

OK,

Here's my thoughts

Firstly I really don't think you have a problem with the Alk/Calc ratio you are seeing at the moment.   550 Calc vs 5 Alk is about the sort of ratio that you would consider to be ' normal '     By that I mean the " ratio " is normal even though the Calc is probably too high as compared to the Alk.

So why is the Alk low in relation to the Calc? I think the problem is with the PH readings. The high PH is using the Alk and thereby allowing the Calc to rise.

Why is the PH so high? I think this is because of poor water circulation and therefore low oxygen levels in the water. Bacteria and algae( I think ) will produce Carbon Dioxide over night which will drive the PH up to an extent where it will use up the Alk in the water.
That was the reason I asked you to aerate some water over night and then test the PH.  If I am correct then the water ( now fully saturated with Oxygen ) should have a lower PH.

If you have a sump, I would suggest that you put some airstones in there and let them run 24/7 for a week and then do another test.  Also have a look at how any powerheads are situated in the tank.  Even try to tilt some so they circulate water from the bottom of the tank upwards to agitate the water surface.

Not sure if any of the above makes much sense to you, so please ask for further info as many of the people here will be able to explain further.  I would also appreciate it if anyone thinks I have missed or misinterpreted anything

Cheers

John


ps I have edited ( strike through ) some of the text above as I feel it is inaccurate

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

Just another thought, if you are concerned about another snow storm occuring, get your water tested for Magnessium. It should be around 1200-1400ppm

John

 

Re: anyone have problems with Crushed Coral substr

High pH Problems By Randy Holmes Farley.

High pH problems in reef tanks are most frequently encountered when using limewater, but are also sometimes encountered when using other high pH alkalinity supplements, such as the original version of B-ionic. If the carbonate alkalinity is not more than 4 meq/L, then high pH is typically caused by a carbon dioxide deficiency. Additives like limewater generate a substantial deficiency of carbon dioxide in reef tanks, and the end effect is that the pH runs on the high side.

All of the discussion to follow presumes that you are using limewater (or other high pH supplement) properly. That assumption implies that you are adding an appropriate amount (i.e., balancing the rate of calcification, or less if combined with some other supplementation scheme) and that it is not being added too rapidly (overwhelming the ability of the tank to buffer against pH rises).

One way to decrease the pH in tanks using limewater is to drive more carbon dioxide into the water. One can drive more carbon dioxide into the water through better aeration, by adding carbon dioxide directly, or by adding an organic acid that eventually breaks down into carbon dioxide (like vinegar; aka acetic acid). The vinegar can be added directly to the limewater itself, or directly to the tank.

Another good option to lower chronically high pH is to switch to an alkalinity supplement that has less of a pH raising effect. Limewater is the worst of the lot, followed by sodium carbonate (washing soda). Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) will actually have a very slight pH lowering effect on it’s own, and will make a big pH effect relative to adding limewater or washing soda. A CaCO3/CO2 reactor, of course, has the biggest pH lowering impact of any alkalinity supplement scheme (as described above).

Commercial alkalinity supplements track these suggestions, but there are too many to list. They cannot even be lumped together by class, though most solids sold as “buffers” will have a fairly small impact on pH. Some two-part additives are largely carbonate and some are largely bicarbonate. To tell the difference, just measure the pH of the alkalinity portion. If it is less than 9, then it is primarily bicarbonate, and would be a good choice to switch to if chronic high pH is the issue. If it is more than 11, it is primarily carbonate, and would not be as optimal in this application.

Switching to another supplement does not necessarily mean a complete switch. Switching partially from limewater to the new version of B-ionic, or one of the other two-part additives with a low pH impact can have a considerable long-term effect on pH.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/chem.htm

High indoor carbon dioxide can also apparently lead to low pH problems in many tanks. Respiration by people and pets, the use of un-vented appliances burning natural gas (e.g., ovens and stoves) and the use of CaCO3/CO2 reactors can lead to high indoor carbon dioxide levels. The level of carbon dioxide can easily be more than twice that of exterior air, and this excess can substantially lower the pH. This problem is especially severe in newer, more airtight homes. It is unlikely to be a problem in homes like mine where you can feel the wind blowing around old window frames.

Many aquarists have found that opening a window near the tank can result in a significant rise in pH within a day or two. Unfortunately, those aquarists living in colder climates cannot readily open windows in the winter. Some have found it useful in these situations to run a pipe or tubing from the outside to the air input of a skimmer, where fresh, exterior air is rapidly mixed with the tank water.

Finally, the use of limewater in these situations is also appropriate. In fact, limewater may be more optimally used in this situation because the tank would be less likely to experience the undesirably high pH that sometimes accompanies limewater use. While limewater is the alkalinity supplement most potent at raising pH, other high pH additives would also suffice. Supplements based on carbonate, for example, would be very useful in this situation, while bicarbonate would not be. As a commercial example, the original B-ionic would be better than the newer version. For home brews, washing soda (sodium carbonate) would be better than baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).