Anemone Debate

hey everyone, i have just spent i dont know how long reading this whole topic/thread!!!! i do now have square eyes and will shortly need glasses!!!!!

one thing however, i have just had a MASSIVE knowledge increase and i"m amazed that anyone on here reading this with or without problems , will be hard pushed to find any other/better advice anywhere in the world.

10 out of 10 everyone for all the help(although i do just have to add that my bubbletip hasn"t divided etc but has seemed healthy and happy for last 2 years!!!)

ROBMAN you are a god in my eyes just for starting such a thread.....even if it has swayed away from exactly what you where saying in the original post!!! thanks

 

:laughings

I won't explain why I find that so funny, but I'm sure X knows why

Also, using "the" in my name is awesome! Thanks ;D Very cool.

That's what I was asking. Knowing something is threatened changes my view. I am not convinced nem's are anywhere close to threatened yet, but that's the sort of reason that would make me care.

This is also my point. I see threads like this, but figure plenty more coral and fish are lost in this hobby than nems. I mean, vertebrae fish for crying out loud - tons of coral is lost for all kinds of reasons and yet we're worrying about nems? Makes no sense to me.

Also, plenty of nems are easily not threatened or even close to it and plenty are extremely hardy and easy to care for. Rock and flower nems for example are pretty invincible (if you can't tell that's an exaggeration and not literal, oh well). My rock anemones, like I said, lived through my cycle.

This thread has a point on some nems but takes the stance for all nems and I don't find that appropriate - it is very misleading.

They feel stimuli. They can tell beneficial from harmful stimuli. I wouldn't argue against that. But 'pain' is a word that deals with discomfort and suffering. That sort of thing requires one to be aware (IMO). Nems are not self aware.

So you can hurt them, but it registers closer to 'not good' than it does to 'ouch'. They just don't have enough neural cells.

You know, I don't believe nems wish they could scream in agony nor that their life flashes before their eyes. I don't believe they can experience so much pain they pass out. They just keep taking it and keep trying to move from it.

IMO, they experience negative stimuli and that's as far as "pain" is concerned with them.

IMHO, I find this ethically hypocritical. (not that I disagree with it one bit mind you, I'm as hypocritical as the next guy).

But I find it to be a fundamental flaw of this thread. Nems are very low on the totem pole of life. I've ran over more squirrels, stepped on more snake heads, killed enough mice in traps, sent enough stray dogs to the gas tanks, hit enough armadillos on the street and eaten enough meat that I just don't see any reason to worry about something without a brain suffering "needlessly". I view this thread quite differently than I view the opinions on cycling with fish - that, I, at least, understand the view against it.

IMO, they are not suffering, their numbers are fine. I get the view point about killing things needlessly and if the noobs objective is to kill the nem, then I agree with you guys, that's not right. But it's not their objective. They don't meet their objective quite often (who does), but that, alone, doesn't make it wrong.

 

of course it is hypocritical! But you get socialized to it...

Start watching the road Pered! Wow that is a long list.... Makes sense though, surely ants are more sentient than nems and I have seen people step on them just to watch them die. Still agree that you should be able to care for the critters before you put them in your tank.

gresham - i think that point you make goes to the collection culture of the divers. Sand dwelling definitely easier to collect, you don't have to fiddle with getting them off a rock, you can just pick them up. If divers are going to the same places over and over again catching bag limits, (if they have any), from the same spot and the spot runs out there is something wrong with the way they do business. They need to diversify species lines so they can make an income without putting as much pressure on a certain species, so they can take a replaceable amount, or they can focus on seasonal items that can offset lower takes on staple items, or they can just spread their activities to other spots which is probably the least effective way to manage it but is what they commonly do here. They can just as easily wipe out the fish, or the coral, or the inverts in one area if they don't practice fishery management. It isn't a nem issue, it is a collector issue. Sure if demand were less for nems they would be spared but that doesn't mean that diver isn't going to target something else, and if they don't change their ways it will just transfer the problem. Where is this place? Indonesia? Philippines? I wouldn't think they would get nems from the more exotic Pacific locations.

edit - i added the reason I put Indonesia, I didn't want to infer that they have bad fishing practices, I don't know I have never even been there. I was just guessing b/c they are the biggest exporter.

 

Hey buddy good luck with that now if these where dogs or cats under a car bet your A$$ there would be a riot. I have told all and any who would listen here and every board I go to that anemones need to be kept in a species specific system no fish or power heads and or strong pumps that they can move up into .and strong lighting and water parameter's as good as if you where keeping sps corals .. Good luck and K to you for trying