Anemone Debate

Discussion in 'Inverts' started by Robman, May 21, 2010.

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  1. GuitarMan89

    GuitarMan89 Giant Squid

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    Inwall, I must say you have the most enlightening and meaningful comments as they are well thought out and backed by actual experience. We are walking a fine line with many people. Many hobbyists may judge their success in this hobby overall by their ability to keep harder to maintain animals, such as anemones. Thus, you get comments that seem to be going against the grain. However, overall, I must agree with Inwall. My experience speaking to my lfs and seeing dozens of ASAP threads involving anemones has led me to believe that anemones are not well suited for life in the home aquarium. I congratulate those who have researched and done everything in their ability to create a suitable home for them. But as the facts indicate, even if you keep it alive for 5 or 10 years, that's a small percentage of their lifespan in the wild.

    I also feel compelled to comment on the "right" and "entitlement" comments previously. IMO, again, in my opinion, we are entitled to nothing. A basic example. If we were entitled to food, why am I paying for it? Why doesn't somebody show up at my front door with a large cheese steak and give me what I am entitled to? If your entitled to something, you have an inherent link to that, a vested right that would allow you to obtain the object or privilege no matter what. It would also create a legal remedy, a cause of action that would allow you to take legal action to claim what you are entitled to. I realize this comment isn't perfect, but hopefully you will see my point. So, we are not entitled to an anemone nor entitled many other things we generally take for granted.
     
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  3. stepho

    stepho Panda Puffer

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    Please do not release your anemone into the ocean. You should never return anything to the ocean once it has been removed. That is how we have invasive species. Even if it is a native species, it could have acquired a disease or parasite that is not native to the area and it would spread like wildfire since the wild anemones haven't had a chance to build up an immunity to it.
     
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  4. GuitarMan89

    GuitarMan89 Giant Squid

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    100% agreed. You have it now, and it's good to hear it's doing well, but the dangers to releasing it are many and great. The chances are it did not come from the waters around you. Even if it did, IMO, it's not a good idea.
     
  5. blackraven1425

    blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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    The best thing to do with an anemone that's reproducing is to get those into the hobby. If anemones are going to die because of people regardless as to source, they may as well be from a tank and not wild caught.
     
  6. blackraven1425

    blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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    I'd imagine the easiest way to tell the difference would be how close the anemone is to its largest known size, and whether portions of the anemone are blocking light from other portions, along with a nutrient level check.
     
  7. GuitarMan89

    GuitarMan89 Giant Squid

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    I agree with you on that point, but I don't understand the relation to releasing an anemone back into the wild?
     
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  9. pink4miss

    pink4miss Panda Puffer

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    i have a good idea... release that one into my tank :)
     
  10. johnmaloney

    johnmaloney 3reef Sponsor

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    Oh I know, I am wet as we speak. :) I spend like 40 years a week in the water. That is why I don't really buy that your average nem lives that long in the wild. I have seen nem fields, just 1000s of them ...wiped out by a weather event. We get hurricanes and freezes, and tropical storms...kills nems by the thousands. The oyster reefs get particularly hard hit, I have seen thick nem colonies wiped out by excess rain/freshwater coming out of the Port St. Lucie River and on to the oyster beds. People stepping on them, sea turtles etc... They do okay though because like you said they broadcast spawn and are abundant because of it. Once you get into their ranges and habitat you find them everywhere. And again, just politely disagreeing, I think they can study them if they wanted too, there are 1000s within 3 minutes from Harbor Branch here. They can be dyed, or just densities could be measured at a particular isolated location over a period of time. Anyway, I totally agree that there are a lot of dead nems for no good reason, but I think if you match your success against the potential lifespan of a critter you will be met with failure in this hobby 99.99% of the time. Which is still better than the odds in the wild for most species.
     
  11. blackraven1425

    blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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    That single example is ignoring the other fish that are extremely successful in captivity, and are very common, like most of the damsels, some gobies, some cardinals, the common types of shrimp, hermit crabs...
     
  12. johnmaloney

    johnmaloney 3reef Sponsor

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    How do you know none of them grow back froms the cells left over? Aiptasia readily does this in aquariums; it's reasonable to to consider the possibility that it happens to other species of nem in their natural habitat.

    - I agree that we can learn about nems in captive care and then try to explain how it work in the wild from that experience. I think that is one of the best parts about the hobby.

    People stepping on them out in the wild is as unnatural as them dying in a tank.
    -Maybe. At some point if you make your home in the low tide area of the world you are bound to be stepped on though. It is natural for humans to fish from shore. If the grid went down that is the first place I would go. I just know to look first.

    They can be dyed, If a dyed nem is nearly guaranteed to die in a tank, why would you think dying one in the wild wouldn't kill it? They still have zooxanthellae that will have light blocked because of the dye.

    -Didn't know people were dying then to kill them off after the sale. We can both agree that should be stopped and is cruel and deceptive. I thought they lived through it. This particular nem field is filled with tube nems, they don't have zooxanthellae, so it could still be studied though?? (asking, again I don't know). The warty nems are in a different spot.

    That doesn't do anything to figure out the average lifespan. You aren't relating any individual nem's lifespan with such a study. In this case, every nem could die off, and be replaced by a new nem every week, but the researchers would have no idea how long individuals live.

    - I think you can document them, even if there is some flux between seasons, and when predators come in. The particular environments I am talking about are inshore, and their predators are pretty predictive. I think you would be able to document significant mortality in the first year for sure. This late June/ August when the temps go really high large portions of nems are going to die from the heat exposure and just be shriveled mass on those rocks they have been hanging out on. August -October the sea turtles are feeding and nesting and in November through Feb. the longnose decorators come into the shallows and they definitely put a dent in their numbers. I guess it depends on the nem though....

    I'm fairly sure that we do better than the natural lifespan of creatures more than 00.01% of the time. I'd imagine the clown morphs that ORA is producing wouldn't do as well in the wild as the naturally-evolved clowns. They're a variety of fish that many people have, and that mostly live out full clown-lives of goofiness in captivity.

    -for the 1000s of clowns they put out each year I haven't seen all that many 10 year olds. Never seen a 20 year old angel either. I don't even think .01% of tanks make it to 10 years, nevermind with the same fish. Anemones are also very common.

    great thread blackraven, I agree with like 90% of what you are saying, I just think the goal is too high.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2010