A cheaper way to heat your tank.

Discussion in 'I made this!' started by dngspot, Apr 24, 2010.

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  1. Robman

    Robman Great White Shark

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    Man, that is absolutely awesome to hear that it is that efficient. I wish someone would come up with a chiller idea that is also that efficient. Congrats on a killer DIY. I run 7 tanks and my light bills were insane this winter. 150g has 3 300w. plus about 1300w on all the others. Total of 2200w. I need a plan next winter.
     
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  3. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    So.....please forgive me..... you really need to do an energy audit on your system. All you have done is traded electrical heat for gas heat (gas is much more volitile in price) and added more electrical use.

    I dig any heat project and you have done a fine one. Nice work. Seriously. Very nice job.

    Now.... one thing to keep in mind when powering a tank is if you need to use heat or need to get rid of heat. You use two external air cooled pumps. All that heat being generated by those pumps is being wasted to the air. If you used internal pumps, you would still use the same amount of electricity, but capture all that heat in your tank.

    Using a Hammer head pump to power a skimmer is the very reason I do not recommend Beckett skimmers. They skim great, but so do needle wheels. Your Hammer head is using 335w of power to do a job a a needle wheel skimmer does with 50w for your size tank. But again, if you used a say a Mag pump to power them at least you would capture that 335w watts in heat.

    I don't know what insulation you have on your system. Most folks have to wrap their sumps in the basement with hot water heater blankets to prevent heat loss. All I saw was a glass tank. The tub itself will loose heat even though plastic transfers heat slower. The tub should be insulated and covered to prevent evaporation. Evaporation is heat loss.

    You could do a lot to lower energy use. I'm not trying to be picky, I'm just trying to help. Heat isn't free as you know. You still need the same number of BTUs from gas, but now you have spread it out and use more pumps. More heat loss from the way you are doing it loosing more BTUs. Gas is more efficient that electric so that part is good, but you are still using a lot of energy that you don't have to.
     
  4. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    And now I hate to ask.... but did you use CPVC, or just regular PVC?
     
  5. dngspot

    dngspot Spaghetti Worm

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    I used pvc.
    As for the power usage, most of this information is covered in the RC thread. I will leave that break down to that thread. I will say this much, the hot water heater is in my basement. When I work down there I hear the thing fire off, it is pretty obvious. When my wife showers it fires for about 15 minutes. I have been working in the basement most of the morning and know that hot water heater has not fired yet. I do know that the aquarium heater pump has cycled roughly every 2 hours. The hot water heater has not fired yet. I am not sure but I would expect it to fire at least once a day more, but no more than twice. So at the most it would look like two more people are showering a day. My gas bill rarely exceeds 30 bucks, we have a gas furnace, water heater, range and stove. I would expect my bill will rise to $50.00. My electric bill was $270.00 last month. I took my Kill a Watt around the house looking for the big offenders. The biggest one was the electric heaters. Of coarse this did not include any 240v circuits. The heaters exceeded the next highest offenders, my pumps, by 5 times. With this information I cannot tell you how much I will save but do know I will save some. Now from our history before I added the large electric heater my electric bill was about $170.00 cheaper.
     
  6. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    I understand. I read the RC thread and he said he was not saving any energy, it was just cheaper for him to use gas. The last 6-7 years gas prices have been very volitile, but have come down... could be cheaper now, perhaps not next year.

    My point wasn't to not use gas.... my point was that you are using a ton of energy when you could knock that down quite a bit with different strategies.

    BTUs are BTUs and watts are watts. You are using more BTUs now just by virtue of adding another tub and you are using more watts by virtue of the two added pumps. You have increased your energy use, even if using gas comes out cheaper for you than using electric. Your goal should be to decrease energy use and insulate heat losses. I guarantee you will save more money if that is your objective.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  7. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    I usually don't try to be an alarmist... but that is a potential flooded basement waiting to happen. You need to use CPVC for how water.

    We have a heat exchanger at the plant for our RO system. It only heats the water to 70... max is 95 because we have a dump to protect the RO if it gets over that. Even at those low temps.... the PVC has softened and warped.

    We connect PVC to threaded steel off the heat exchanger....the heat softens the threads and that line has parted about 6 times now. We are in the process of redesigning it. Our water pressure is 90 psi, so not as much as you, but PVC is a bad idea. Even on the drain, it is right off your heater and if that line softens and comes off, big trouble. You really should rethink using PVC off a water heater.
     
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  9. dngspot

    dngspot Spaghetti Worm

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    3/4 inch pvc working pressure is rated at 480 psi at 73 degrees. this rating is pipe temp not liquid temp. At 140 degrees it is reduced to 22%. I will bring home my inferred temp gun home tomorrow and check the pipe temp. I know the water temp is 140 going to the sump but the actual pipe is going to be less due to heat loss and insulation from the pipe. I am not going to loose much sleep over it anyway my system pressure is 55 psi and that is 50% of what the pipe is rated at if it was a at 140 deg.
    I thank you for informing me of a possible safety issue or a mess.
     
  10. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    You should start to loose sleep. I assumed your water heater was at 120F... at 140 you are at the max of PVC... Those rating you are giving are for glued joints. The max temp for PVC threaded joints is 110F... you are over.

    I'm telling you, our Sch 80 came apart with 95F max. The pipes softened and sagged between the hangers. It does not matter what the outside pipe temp is... ratings are given for fluid temp.

    I know you are glued, but the copper to PVC thread and the the PVC to drain connection takes a 50% reduction just for the treads... threads should not be used over 110 due to failure.

    I guess I've said all I can.... you have a flood waiting to happen.
     
  11. dngspot

    dngspot Spaghetti Worm

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    All of my fittings are clearly visible. I will keep an eye on them all and if anything seems to be out of normal I will post.
     
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  12. ComputerJohn

    ComputerJohn Panda Puffer

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    Now we sit and wait... ;D