I sure do talk about the high PAR numbers from those XM 10ks with e ballasts My friend with a 120g lit by 2 xm 10k Se's and electronic ballasts were over 500 PAR. He is using lumateks now but he had 1 icecap and one other brand before. the off brand actually made like 520 APR,a nd the IC driven one was just over 500. I think sanjay's or some other notable light tester confirmed those findings by using an ARO e ballast and the Xm10k SE 250w to make like 520 PAR too. I will get a PAR number from the lumateks as well on my friends tank and post them. I really wanted lumateks, but the icecaps came up used.