Thor's Custom 80+ "kind of" Cube Build

Hi All;

First, I wanted to thank you all for your warm welcome. I lurked here for a while before joining, and I have learned a ton from the various posts. I sincerely appreciate how dedicated you all are to the hobby and to helping others get their feet wet (but hopefully not too wet!).

A few caveats are necessary before I get too far. First, this build is really just in the planning stages right now and it may be several months or more before I am really able to dedicate the time necessary for a few reasons. Most importantly, my 14 month old son has some serious health issues right now and until those get resolved the actual build phase will be on hold. I have found thought that planning for this build is a nice diversion for me to have something else positive to think about. Second, as many of us are facing right now, there are some events going on that may impact my employment. Time will tell, but those need to settle down a bit before I take the plunge as well. Just want you all to know because this one will be a slow process and I will keep you all posted on when things will really get rolling.

I plan on putting together a 60 gallon cube (24X24X24), but I am also considering a 90 (30X30X24). Time will tell which I decide to go with and I will touch on that more in future posts. My wife, son and I live in a two bedroom condo so space is at a premium and is a big consideration in how I will ultimately decide to go.

I am going to build (with the assistance of my father-in-law) a custom tank stand to accommodate an adequate sized sump/fuge. I love cubes, but I find the limits the stands put on sump/fuge options frustrating. I have an idea to help get around that. Yes, I am such a tease as you will have to wait for future posts for more info! Sorry. I think I am also going to tackle building a custom acrylic sump/fuge and ATO reservoir. I plan on going with the Tunze osmillator ATO system (love it from what I have read on it). I figure it is a good way to save some money and to learn some new skills at the same time as I have never worked with acrylic before. I have plans for a hinged control panel to sneak in there as well. As of now for lighting I think I am going to go with AI Sol Blue LED module, but I will be keeping my eyes out to see what else comes on the market by the time I look to buy. In any event, I am fairly well set on going LED.

One of the biggest things I need to figure out still are where to store a RO/DI reserve and the QT tank. I'm working on a few ideas.

I plan on it being largely an LPS dominant tank, but hope to have a few of the easier to keep SPS as well down the road. More info to come on possible stocking options in future posts.

So that is the basic plan. This is not my first time around the block with saltwater. I had a small FOWLR tank about 11 years ago that I loved but I made some huge mistakes that partly led to me giving up the hobby for the last decade, and although I have always wanted to get back in I have just been a bit gun-shy. In my next post I will outline the mistakes I made previously, and what I plan to do to remedy those this time around...

So if you have patience, join in! I look forward to dreaming this bad-boy out and getting some solid input from all you fine folks to help me do this the right way this time....

 

Sounds interesting cant wait to here more about it in your next post.

 

Thanks homegrown! I hope some will find it interesting, and provide input or suggestions as this evolves.

I hope to do another post this weekend sometime. As embarrassing as some of my confessions will be, if nothing else perhaps others can learn from my boneheaded decisions! Who knows, perhaps others will share some of their more embarrassing noob blunders as well...

 

Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes!

So this is going to get embarrassing, but how else can we learn but from our own mistakes? Please feel free to laugh along, shake your head, and even curse out loud. I was one dumb noob!

So my first and only foray into salt was happenstance. I moved to DC 11 years ago into an apartment with an old roommate from college. His brother gave us a 33 gallon hex as a hand-me-down, and I talked my roommate into going saltwater with me. I had wanted to try one for some time and this was a perfect excuse, and lead to the inevitable first major mistake: impatience. (I hear groans already).

I was so excited that I made errors before I even started. I did not do enough research or take the time to really learn about the hobby. I did do some, and learned about the nitrogen cycle, etc., but I definitely approached it more as, "I will learn as I go". Not wise, especially since one of the things that interested me most about the hobby was the intellectual aspects. I didn't do nearly enough research into appropriate filtration and figured that what we had on the tank would be plenty, right?

So we used an UGF with a single power head. (Head hanging in shame). To supplement this I bought the least expensive HOB power filter I could find trying to save money (my second mistake, and pounding my head on my keyboard). Honestly, looking back on it I don't even know if sumps were widely used at the time or not, but I do know that I had read that skimmers where very useful and I chose to ignore it because it was more expensive and didn't readily fit into what we had. The only saving grace was that we planned on doing a FOWLR (more on that in a bit).

So we threw in about 4 inches of crushed coral and some base rock. Wait, my humble reader I am sure you are asking yourself, "I thought he said he was using live rock". Yup, I'm a dumbass. We'd convinced ourselves that base rock would turn into live rock, which it will if given enough time. However, once again due to my lack of research I thought, "hey, once my tank cycles, the rock will be live, right?!". I've never claimed to be a wise man.

Next mistake: I cycled the tank with 3 green chromis and a false perc. Granted, I know that back then a lot of people cycled tanks with fish, but it is not something I will do again. For the record, all these fish pulled through just fine, but I am sure it was a very uncomfortable period for them and I will never do that to another fish again.

Now, about the only thing I did do right was to monitor my chemistry levels closely (daily). I did use the cheapest test kit available, as well as the cheapest hygrometer--which I won't do again. It wasn't bad, but it was not nearly as precise as it should have been. I don't think I had even heard of a refractometer at this point in my life. Better testing equipment will be a must.

Oh yeah, did I mention that I used tap water? Did I also mention that I filled a bucket with water, added declor, and then salt. I measured salinity, and immeadiately dumped it into the tank. No rest period, nothing. Dumb. Granted, I did not have too much trouble with my salinity levels I am assuming due to the small tank size, poor testing equipment, and sheer dumb, and I mean very dumb, luck.

What about topoffs you say? I had a very scientific method. Once the water level dropped to the point where the nozzle to the power head was exposed (probably a good 3 inches), I filled it with water from the tap. Um, yeah. So basically my salinity was as stable as a schizophrenic without meds. (Pounding my head on the keyboard again). Water changes? Not much better. I took some out and mixed up some stuff until it was "close enough" and dumped it in. God my poor fish!

Then the next mistake--adding more livestock. Sure I researched them for compatibility with other livestock. I did not research them to determine if my tank size was appropriate or even if they were good specimens to add to the tank, much less feeding requirements. I mean, flake fish food should work. They are fish, and the flakes are for fish. Easy peasy, er, uh, something like that.

So I bought the fish I liked to look at without any regard to whether they would thrive in my system. I'm sure there was some bravado taking place here as in, "hey, I take good care of my fish so i am sure they will be happy." Well, obviously I wasn't taking good care of them, but my ego got in the way of seeing that.

So I went out and bought a small juvenile regal blue tang (the fish I always wanted) and a mandarian because they looked cool as hell. Beyond those two big mistakes (a Tang would never do in a system that small, nor would a mandarin, especially in a system that has only been up and running a few months at this point). I hope those two can forgive me my ignorance when I enter the pearly gates!

Here is the other mistake at that point though...I listened to the LFS. They wanted a sale and told me what I wanted to hear that they would be fine in my system. No education on the fact that juvenile tangs can be difficult to raise or that a mandarin has very special diet requirements that there was no way in hell my system could provide. I don't blame them totally, as I should have researched and known this on my own with out them, but still.

So I take my prize possessions home, acclimate them (which i have found I actually did do the right way. Oh yeah, except for the dumping of the bag water into the tank. (Hitting my head with a mallet now). And, oh yeah, no quarantine. Why? Well, my system was so good and I would take such good care of them it wasn't necessary (that stupid bravado again). Also, I didn't want to spend the money on another tank...which can only be blamed to laziness.

Surprisingly, things went well for quite a while. Everyone was eating (well, except the mandarin but he seemed to be doing fine, right? I had a good solid few months of good times with my new found friends. That is until one day I come out and my tang is laying on the sand bed gasping for breath (oxygen levels were okay). Remember there is no quarantine. I feed them and ran off to work thinking I have time to figure it out when I come home.

I come home to all of my fish gasping for breath, except one lone chromis. Tang dies a few hours later, followed shortly by the mandarin. Oh Crap! I go to the LFS, read on line, try to figure out what is going on. I get back and all of my fish are gone except the one lone chromis. No white spot, no nothing except a little something you could barely see on the tang.

Velvet. I am sure of it to this day as it happened so fast. I am sure it was brought on my my crazy saline swings, and perhaps came in the LFS store water I dumped in the tank. At a time when I didn't have much money, losing over $100 in fish in less than 24 hours was devastating.

In the end, I cooked the tank (which the chromis survived) to try and rid it of the velvet. Went through another ammonia spike as the cooking obviously messed with my virginal biological filtration. Once that settled down I added another clown and a few more chromis, all of who also succumbed in a short time to velvet.

As this point, our lease was up and my roommate and I went our separate ways. I kept the tank, but the complete failure at my first attempt in saltwater scared me from trying to do it again. I think on some subconcious level I didn't want to look closely at what I had done wrong and try to do it better the next time. That would have bruised my ego too much I guess so I turned it into a chichlid tank, which did very well for several years.

I guess it is time to end this sad tale. "You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "

Any funny stories you'd like to share, feel free. Any good natured jabs at yours truly are of course always accepted and encouraged.

In the next post, I will talk about the things I plan to do differently this time to correct for my stupidity.

Have a nice weekend!

 

How to do it better...

Okay...Tyler's asleep, its Saturday night and I have a few minutes.

I am focusing on 4 main areas of focus to improve this time around.

1. Knowledge. I am taking my time absorbing all I can about the hobby this time around, analyzing my options and researching the pro's and cons of each whether it be to the livestock selections, equipment choices or whatever. I tend to be a voracious reader anyway, but I have been starting out with a few general reef aquarium books. I've read:

Conscientious Marine Aquarist
Marine Reef Aquariums (not sure the Author, but I can post later. This one I found less instructive than the previous).
Trouble Shooting Marine Aquariums (An Animal Planet book)
A book Exclusively about Invertebrates for the Marine Aquarium (I don't have it handy or I'd give the specific title).

I've also purchased Tony Vargas' new book and I am totally excited for this read.

Does anyone have any books they have found particularly helpful? If so, post it and I will look into it. I plan to also get a book specifically for marine fishes as well.

I am constantly sneaking in a few minutes throughout my day just doing random surfing on the internet too, and I must say it has come a very long way as far as info goes for the hobby from even 11 years ago. The hard part is sifting through all of it. Luckily, you fine folks here at 3reef are quick to help out with any questions and point people in the right direction. I will be relying on this heavily when it comes time to implement my plans.

2. Planning. I am taking the time to plan the system I want, and trying to focus on stability for water conditions, and ease of maintenance. I am also thinking through (and right now constantly changing) my stocking lists. Once established, this will help me focus the rest of the project. The hard part here is that I want EVERYTHING, so I am going to have to make some decisions at some point and go with it. For example, I hadn't thought about a goby and a tiger shrimp until I saw a few folks with them on here and now I think they are cool as hell. Same with a Jawfish. (Insert species here) and at some point I have said, "I want that!" Once I decide on it though, I will stick with it and build the system to match the requirements necessary.

3. Patience. This comes into play in a lot of ways. For now it means identifying what I want for my tank equipment wise. Research to find the best products for any given job, and then bucking up the funds to buy what I want rather than going the most inexpensive route just to save a buck. I am trying to do a good job of choosing where to invest and where I can save intelligently. If that means I have to save up a few months to get the next better model of something, I am willing to wait.

Once it comes to implementing the tank, that will be much more about stability, establishing healthy populations of necessary micro-fauna, stable water conditions etc. I also plan to go slow in adding stuff so that I can try and see how my additions impact my various levels (especially when it comes to pH, alk, etc.). Once I understand what each new one needs as far as that goes in a practical hands on way, then it will be time to look to the next addition. Which kinds of leads into...

4. Learning to apply all the book knowledge in practical terms. This I know will require a lot of patience, and this is the part I will probably have the most challenge with being patient on. Once the tank is set-up, the temptation to race ahead without taking the time to understand the interactions going on in my tank at a practical level will be hard. It will all be about will power at that point .

So there it is. A good solid base to start from. My next post I will put up pics of the space I have to work with and I will really start pressing for some suggestions and opinions from there. So the actual system planning phase begins and will be the focus for the foreseeable future.

Hope you all are having a great weekend!

 

The Space I have to work with

Hi Everyone.

I am posting pics of the space I have to work with for this build. Here goes:


and



So this space is 28.5" deep and 38.5" across. Obviously I will be moving out the cabinet (we really don't use it anymore and it just ends up being a place we dump stuff).

I'm trying to decide what size tank to put in there. I want to use as much space as possible to take advantage of what I have. Regardless of the tank size I go with, I will be building a cabinet to utilize all the space.

Here are the things I have considered, and I would love some input--pros/cons kind of thing or other recommendations.

1. 60 gallon cube 24X24X24. This would give me views of three sides to some extent and give me space to work all around the tank.

2. 90 gallon cube (30X30X24H). This would give me more water, open the door to slightly more possibilities of fish, and overall better stability. The downside is that it would stick out the front a few inches. Not the end of the world, but not as clean of a look. I would also be more limited in space to work around the cube.

3. A 90 gallon that is 36LX24WX24H. This would give me the cleaner look, but would severely limit the amount of space I have to work around the tank. If I wanted to go with Vortec MP40's (and I think I do) I don't think they would fit.

4. Go the custom route and have a tank build somewhere along the dimensions of 34LX26WX24 deep. Basically would give me the same gallons as above, with just enough room to work around the outside and fit in those MP 40s, while still being able to line up with the front of the space for the cleanest look possible.

If #4, I need to find someone to build the tank. Not sure of options there, and who makes good tanks. I checked out glasscages, but I am a bit leery due to some of the reports out there about customer service and overall quality. Any other good builders you are aware of?

I appreciate any and all input here! Once I narrow down the tanks size I will be able to also identify appropriate stocking lists as well.

I've already got some mock-ups of the stand/sump, but may adjust them slightly based on sizing. Those will come in future posts once I make that decision.

What do you all think? Anyone have a great vision here or practical experience that I should take into consideration?

Thanks!

 

Quick update...I contacted a company in Baltimore that works with Tenecor to get a quote on a custom tank to try and maximize the space I have. I hope to hear from them in a few weeks (I told them there isn't a rush as it may be 6 months or so before I can really get going on the tank part) and see what the damage will be on a 32"L X 25W X 24H tank. That would put me somewhere in the ballpark of 85 to 90 gallons, which is closer to the size I would like to have and still give me enough room to work around the tank some.

Who knows though, once I get the quote I may be sticking with the original plan of a 60 cube .

Once I know which way I will go I will be finalizing the plans for the stand/sump, etc. I will be sure to post them.

I figure the stand and sump will give my father-in-law and I a nice fall project to work on.

I am also trying to think through where to store water. I am currently thinking in a small linen closet where I could make some space. I will probably be building acrylic storage tanks to fit in there as well (one for fresh RO/DI water and one for mixing). It is a confined space as well, so I think I will have to build to fit them.

One other thing I am trying to think through is a plan for the quarantine. Since I don't have a back room to stash it in either, it will need to look nice enough to also be a display in the same room as the main display tank. Depending on how my acrylic skills go with the sump/storage tanks I may build that one myself as well.

I'll keep you posted once I hear on a quote and decide tank size.

 

Quick update:
Got one quote from Mid West Custom Aquariums today. I am still waiting on the Tenecor rep in Baltimore to get back to me with a quote.

In any event, it sounds like it is in the price range I expected so I am probably going to go with the custom tank.

I've been doing a ton of researching and planning, but I have a whole bunch more to do before I am ready to get this ball rolling. Here is what I have so far:

Tank Stand Design: Done
Sump Design: Done
ATO reservoir design: Done
QT Tank Design: in progress
Stocking list (fish): nearly done
Stocking List corals: in progress

Yet to do:
Decide on lighting (between AI Sol Blue and new Radion fixture)
Decide on skimmer (between SWC 160 and Eshoppes 120 cone)
finalize space for storage water and design storage tanks (I'm making them all out of acrylic)
Decide on lighting, skimmer, return pump, and powerhead for QT
Deside on media reactor(s) for biopellets and carbon

Then, well, I gotta build it all! It is getting closer now though and I am getting more excited about it each day.

 

I know this is going slow as hell, but I've had lots going on in the non-reefing world lately.

Still waiting on a quote from Tenecor, not sure what the deal is but my local guy said he has been having unusual delays in getting responses from them lately. They may just be really jammed with builds.

Not matter, there is time for that. I am trying to find a good local supplier of cell-cast for my sump and storage tanks, hope to get an order in during the next few weeks. Then hopefully it will be time to build the stand/sump etc. Unfortunately, my building time is going to be competing with some handy-man stuff around my rental condo though. No matter, I am still on track and shooting to have it up and running by late winter.

One issue I am trying to resolve is what to do for my QT. I've considered building that out of acrylic too, but I just can't decide. It has to like like a display since it will be out in the open. Considered a few all in ones, aqua-pods, bio-cubes, but I think I want more control of the equipment.

One thing that I am considering is this:Products

What do you all think? Is this too small for a QT? The biggest fish I may have is a pygmy angel of some sort...

 

Go 90 cube. Bigger = Better IMO.