55g refugium flow rate?

diggardens · 12-28-2006, 09:21 AM

I am setting up a 55g refugium and would like to know how to figure a flow rate for it. A tee feeds from the tank overflow to the refug and then a pump sends it to the main sump and then to the tank. I know I need good contact time in the refug but not sure how fast or slow. Math is not my forte.

Otty · 12-28-2006, 10:21 AM

I have heard both 5 to 10 and 10 to 15 time the water volume so I went right inbetween and set my 55 up for around 500 gph. May be to fast but I guess time will tell.

diggardens · 12-28-2006, 10:31 AM

Otty, is your main tank or refug 55g? My refuge is 55g and external from sump. It just seems 500gph on the refuge is a bit much. Hey, what do I know, this is my firsy attempt. I'm a NEWBIE

Thank you

m_lacom99 · 12-28-2006, 10:44 AM

I would shoot for around 200 - 300 GPH and you could go slower, that way the fuge will have time to do its job and filter out your water... Water going through a fuge to fast is basically not getting filtered so the fuge becomes useless. Just my 2 cents.

Marc.

diggardens · 12-28-2006, 11:08 AM

The main tank is a 90g. I plan on live rock and a mix of plants in the refug. I know me, I will end up having a large bio load in the main tank. Plus I hope to have a larger main tank someday.

What happened to the last reply? Where did it go ? It was from Tangster.

Tangster · 12-28-2006, 01:24 PM

I pulled it .. I'd ask what do you intend this fuge to do for your main tank ? in the last several yrs I see so many just over doing a very simple and efficient concept.. A 55 gal is way way to large for a refugium on a 90 gal display tank ..

I had a heavy stocked 90 all you need is a 10 to maybe 15 gal tank and feed it from the main drain to sump on one end and drill the opposite end and allow it to drain over into the main sump. And just flow the size of the fuge through the fuge Per Hr. say a 15 gal fuge then 15 gph through it this allows the waste time to settle and become the needed fertilizers for the plants. And RDP lighting and you will be set for many yrs to come just reach in and pull grass as needed.. This will keep the plants thriving and regrowing..

If the system is flowed and set up properly a skimmer will be little needed.. Thats what I am finding the funniest thing with all the new overly complicated ways to set up a simple swamp. They are filtering and skimming the water first LOL. But I have seen alot of simple efficient ideas to be overly done until death was the final out come of the idea.

Dyngoe · 12-28-2006, 02:20 PM

Perfect reply Tangster.
You opened up the door for one more consideration. If your alkalinity is not high enough and you run a 55Gal fuge, your PH will vary widly throughout the light cycle. I have ~18 Gal in my fuge and the water goes in directly from my overflow at ~12-15 Gal an hour. The remainder drains directly into my sump. Don't know if this is the best way to run it, but I do know I never have any nitrates in my tank. I also use a RDP (reverse daylight photosynthesis) which kicks the lights on when my halides are off in the main tank. RDP is intended to balance the CO2 absorbtion. During the day the main tank is converting CO2 to O2 and at night the fuge is doing the same thing. Now, my alkalinity is high enough I shouldn't have to worry. But, better safe than sorry.

Tangster · 12-30-2006, 09:12 AM

Yes a properly sized and flowed Refugium can do a lot to emulate natures saltwater marshes or swamps (: These things go way back really First I ever heard of them was about the time I and many where trying to do the DSB systems those days it was called a Natural system.. Deep sand Lots of plants and just air stones for water movement. Then as this was dissected and rethought about in the mid 80's us old timers figured out some of this and some of that and maybe a pinch of this would be better ..
We had found out a DSB would not stand the test of time if you kept a fish or two And the natural system less the plants was worthless then applying common sense we looked at saltwater Marshes like we used to play in when I was a kid.. In Eastern Va and N.C and then applied what was learned as kids walking in the mud (: Hunting what ever we could catch. From Bugs to birds (:

A refugium is a combination of these nature tested and approved method to keep the oceans healthy.. And the bottom line is they need to be fed and their size in the applications we are using them can and is limited to the size of the main system we are using them to support.
I think this is where they newer people in the mid to late 90's to now hit the wall of the plants growing sexual and dieing off and going to seed to save themselves. The newer guys would read and say hey bigger is got to be better and more water flows will supply more nutrient rich water. Wrong it does just the opposite in reality .

Then they go to a new ball of algae that can with stand the 24 /7 day and fast flows thinking they are getting more for their efforts.. Then the next bunch of new people jump on this wagon until it fails and it will I just had a friend over in Pa. to loose his ball of Cheado (: He never tried the old way and since his change to the old style he will be the first to admit the plants I sent him are growing by the week and his water is far far more stable and clearer ..

But bigger is not always better and faster is sometimes the slower way to get there.. This subject can go on and on . But over time I and many old guys have found a refugium that is about 1/10 the tanks volume and then run the refugiums total volume through the plants 1x per hr and RDP lighting will keep the tank very very stable and little risk if any of the better Caulerpas from going sexual I have as yet never had that to happen in 20 yr of messing with planted refugims .. And I would also suggest that any type of refugium one uses to be fed as you have and I do also that is to feed it directly from the main tank unfiltered or treated water , also Carbon in the system to remove the green chlorophylls they will leech also as they leech Ca and other needed minerals back into the water.

diggardens · 12-30-2006, 12:26 PM

Thank you for helping me understand this better. I will be saving the 55g for something else and go with a smaller refug. I will keep the tee feeding the refugium from the main tank and I will run the lights oppisite the main tank. I have to say that joining 3reef has been the best thing I could have done for my reef. I have books but this has helped more. I am still reading books and old threads here. I am sure that there will be more questions as time goes and that is ok as long as I have this place. Thanks again.

Tangster · 12-30-2006, 03:22 PM

I'd doubt there are any old information around the net from when it all began ? Like I had not Internet until 96 or so and I used to talk on the phone to out of town keepers and all the hands on was from my own experiences and a few old timers from my local area.
But to break it down to a simple explanation is like saying OK you have natural organic 20 acre farm and its been fertilized via the waste of the animal on the farm and the crop is doing great at 20 aces .. So one yr the farmer wanted to increase the crop production. With the same amount of fertilizer he always had from his limited cows chickens what evers.. No added out put of fertilizer for the extra Crops.. Then the extra plants will starve for food or grow less and get weaker.. The balance was upset..
And what many found when we went to reef tanks is that to feed a planted refugium that was much more then 1/10 the tanks size in total volume you have to have one really over fed reef.. Not saying that at first there would not be enough waste to feed a 55. but at some point the food will go and so does the algae..hence the one reason for going asexual. As I also mentioned the need for a skimmer will lower drastically also.. if you are removing say one cup of effluent weekly now with a well set up refugium that will take 2 maybe 3 weeks or longer to get the same amount from your skimmer.
Its just a good basic simple concept that works if allowed to..Very slow flows and some down time for the plants to sleep and release their waste . Oxygen (: and on RDP they will release their oxygen when the tank needs it to off set the higher CO2's the plants will be eating as food at night time for the tank and no more fluctuating PH and DKH drops..