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|12-25-2008, 09:02 PM||1|
All about Iodine and Iodide dips for corals
I'm looking to see if I can get some questions nailed down here, because from what I've tried searching everything seems to bring up more questions.
First, what is the major difference between....
1. Lugol's Solution (by Kent Marine) $19 for 1 oz at LFS (I've seen it as low as $11 + shipping online, but in this economy I say support your LFS). Ingredients are deionized water, potassium iodide, and iodine. As a coral dip, use 40 drops Lugol's Solution to 1 gallon aquarium water and immerse coral for 10-15 minutes. And what critters (flatworm, red bugs, bacteria, parasitic snails, etc) are killed by this and what coral types should it be used on (zoas, sps, lps, mushrooms).
2. Decolorized Iodine (Iodides Tincture U.S.P. - Rite Aid brand) $5 for 2 oz, generally used as and antiseptic. Contains alcohol (45%) denatured with ammonia, purified water, Ammonium and Potassium Iodides. I've heard from the "Old School" this could be used as a generic substitute for Lugol's Solution, and wanted to know if the same dosage (40 drops per gallon) for coral dips applys - just not sure about the ammonium iodides vs potassium iodides? Also, there is no MSDS that I could find on Lugol's Solution that really lists everything.
3. There is also Povidone-iodine that comes in 8 oz bottle for $4 at Kmart. This has some other stuff in it that I'm also unsure of. But there's no alcohol in it, and I don't think any ammonia/ammonium iodide either.... The iodine content was 10% I think. Maybe this is a safe alternative to Lugol's solution for use in coral dip?
I did find this, http://www.labsafety.com/refinfo/fed...PDF/081106.pdf
which shows what concentrations should be in federally regulated iodine products, and not sure where lugol's solution fits in with the 4 categories (but assuming it would be in either the "iodine topical" or "strong iodine" w/ water). Would the 45% alcohol in the antiseptic use iodide tincture have any negative effect on the coral, since its only drops in gallons and it's for 10-15 minutes.
Any other generic iodine/iodide products that provide the same benefit in a coral dip application without possibly harming corals from additional/alternative ingredients?
Thoughts or comments on this?
Also, could it be suitable or beneficial to LPS that are bleaching color?
Also, could it be suitable for a fish dip and under what circumstances/diseses or general acclimation/QT process?
P.S. - I'm not just 'throwing this out there' - I have quite a few LPS and zoas and mushrooms that may need some dipping before I'd feel safe putting them in my DT. Also, I know a freshwater dip works on flatworms, but what else survives a FW dip that Iodine works on? I've FW dipped leathers, but can you FW dip zoas, mushrooms, or LPS?
Last edited by Bogie; 12-26-2008 at 10:38 AM.
|12-25-2008, 09:45 PM||#2|
Ok, I found this on WWM. But no MSDS to back it up.
"Lugol's Ingredients: Iodine 5% (I2) Potassium Iodide (KI) 10% and Purified Water".
|12-26-2008, 07:07 AM||#3|
It is indeed Potassium Iodide, elemental Iodine and water.
Lugol's solution has been around since waaaaaay before we were born. If it's called Lugol's Solution, it has been these ingredients for a looooong time.
I have a 24 oz bottle that I've had since before the drug laws changed. That's when the price skyrocketed too. I'm pretty much set for life.
I'm struggling to explain this. Iodine, Iodide, and Iodate are all Iodine but their effect in your tank are all very different. A piece of coal and a diamond are both just Carbon, but which one does your wife want for Christmas?
The next time you get a paper cut or very small wound, put some iodine on it. Then you'll know if you should put fish in a dip of iodine where they have their eyes open and have to breath it through their lungs.
|12-26-2008, 07:19 AM||#4|
I also use Lugo's sol. when I need to do a Dip. But I have never used it on a fish before, I dont recommend that. The bottle tells you how to use it when dipping corals. Luna
|12-26-2008, 07:23 AM||#5|
Most serious keepers and biologists alike will use the old cliche if you don't test for it dont add it..... In my eyes this does work but in some cases it is too conservative for me... As far as iodine/de go, thats one thing I have decieded to leave out of my regimen. I used to does Lugols maybe once a week but the more I learned about the negative affects of IoDINE and what little anecdotal reports of positives there were, I stopped and haven't looked back since. I have yet to read any damning evidence supporting a lugol type solution in tanks. Its kind of like the vodka dosing.... people say, "wow, since I've been adding karkov to my tank it is great!" Well, great compared to what? Whats the control? There is A LOT of evidence supporting negative and toxic effects of IoDINE!
Anyway, moral of the story, do what thou wilt and do whatever is comfortable with you!
Heck, I am using Dowflakes and Magflakes AFTER I told people not to!! But hey, people change! :-)
Good luck and nice quote about supporting the locals...They will appreciate it whether the economy is strong or otherwise!!
|12-26-2008, 07:54 AM||#6|
This stuff I have does smell pretty strong, but maybe dilluted in water it wouldn't be so bad as using in a dip for corals?
I'm not big into dipping fish anyway, and have only done FW dips with 2 fish ever. My theory with that is (for ick anyway) it stresses them more and makes it worse. For some serious parasites, fungus, or infections though, I'd use the recommend medications in a QT tank. I used Roger's method of acclimating my last fish, placing it into the tank by hand, and it was not stressed at all - in fact he's doing great. I just won't add any fish to my tank unless it looks and acts 100% healthy and eats.
I'm going to look around for other types of Iodine/iodide solutions w/o the alcohol and ammonium iodide in it today. (I'll keep this bottle of antiseptic iodides tincture around for next time my dog licks her paw until it's raw).
Thanks Dr. Frag,
But I don't see where testing for iodine would come into play if you only use it in a solution to dip new corals, since the dipwater is not going into the display tank. This thread was about preparing dips with different iodine solutions, not on dosing in the DT. It think it's dosed mainly for exenia to make them pulse, but I don't keep xenia in my tank. (I do keep around an iodine test kit anyway, still unopened).
Thanks Luna, I had the dip instructions from Lugol's in the OP. Notice any hitch hikers falling off your corals while doing the dip? Thanks! K+
|12-26-2008, 09:21 AM||#7|
I did not notice anything falling off the corals when I did the dips. I did, however, notice the corals opening up in a weird way(cant explain how). The reason why I dipped them was b/c they were losing they're color and what looked like RTN. Within days, they got there color back and started to grow again. The corals where a Montipora and Acroporas. Godd luck. Luna
|12-26-2008, 11:01 AM||#8|
Ok, so from even further research, it seems that Lugol's Solution is the most widely practiced iodine/iodide solution for making a coral dip, but I guess I could practice on a couple zoas that I wouldn't mind losing using the iodide tincture.
The iodide tinctures that include the ammonia and alcohol in it apparently will work for a coral dip. It seems that shortly after the iodide tincture is added to the SW to make the dip solution, the alcohol and ammonia will evaporate out of the dip, and the coral will not be negatively impacted by those ingredients in the iodide tincture.
Last edited by Bogie; 12-31-2008 at 10:00 AM.
|05-16-2009, 02:31 PM||#9|
Iodine/Iodide/Iodate all have to do with the amount of electrons present on the ion. Iodate would be the most ionic, followed by Iodide and Iodine (Neutral I believe) even though this molecule is very rarely in this state.
At any rate, i just purchased an orange plate coral and it's showing skeleton through. Is dipping ok for this? If yes, would this stuff work? Tailored Aquatics Iodide
|05-16-2009, 03:37 PM||#10|
Yes, it should be safe. That's similar to Lugol's....it's Potassium Iodide
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