vitamin C

Interesting... Can you test for vitamin c? If not.. How would you know if you had a build up or deficit? I have always been of the mindset, if you can't test for it or don't test for it, you have no business dosing it.

 

It's a carbon source, so, it's a little different than most additives, as it drives bacteria. More like adding food than a chemical in many ways. The idea is bacteria consumes the carbon and then is removed by a skimmer and can be removed by GAC, if it is growing on the surface, when the GAC is changed out.. Also, corals can likely consume the bacteria as can other organisms, which are then eaten by other organisms etc... Some forms of carbon can even be directly consumed by corals actually. So, it shouldn't build up too much.

There is some evidence that it is tough to get organic carbon levels too high in a well filtered aquarium.

Feature Article: Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

However, in theory, if bacteria was limited by some other nutrient, that could inhibit growth of bacteria and allow buildup of organic carbon. So, people usually recommend cutting back the dose once nutrient levels are undetectable. GAC however, is extremely efficient at removing organic carbon though, so, if you change out your GAC regularly (weekly or at least rinse weekly), it would be quite difficult for OC to accumulate.

So, IMO, never carbon dose without a protein skimmer and GAC. Also, bacteria can produce toxic byproducts, which is another reason to use GAC and a skimmer.

Also BTW re: toxins, as a side note, I think these byproducts are often misidentified by hobbyists as "coral warfare", as many such bacteria live in coral mucus and are tough to distinguish from the corals. In the literature there is a lot of evidence to suggest much of this comes from coral associated microbes rather than the corals themselves. These microbes can be driven by organic carbon. This can be good for the coral at normal ocean levels of TOC, which may be higher than many aquariums, as these toxins can help the coral ward off other "bad" microbes, but too much OC, can lead to a disruption of symbiosis.

 

You'll be adding sugars (which is an additional Carbon source). You could easily accidentally cause a bacteria bloom and you don't have a skimmer to remove the excess. IMO, in your situation, I would use one of the prepared STABILIZED Vitamin C supplements. (I.e. Brightwell, Seachem, Kent Marine). There's also the food soaks (Selcon, Vitachem, Amino-Omega, etc)

I agree that this is a true statement most of the time. However, people who have experimented with Vitamin C have done the work for you.

There's tons of things we cannot test for. You can't even test for Total P and everytime you add food and other supplements, you are adding more Phosphorus. You can't test for most trace elements. You can't even test for most minor elements without very pricey scientific equipment and you are dosing that every time you do a water change.

 

I would advise that you do not dose VC until you have an adequately sized skimmer rated for 150%+ the volume of your system.
Reason being that you will not be exporting enough of the bacterial waste produced by the bacteria. In effect you will not be removing any extra nuisance nutrients and can actually cause a problem with the decomposition of that large an amount of extra waste. The same goes for bio pellets - they recommend the ouput of the biopellet reactor is directed to the intake of the skimmer. The effectiveness of the VC dosing is in its ability to, among other anelgesic effects, aide in rapid nuisance nutrient transport via conversion of organic waste into hydrophillic compounds which are easily removed via the skimmer. Water changes alone will not remove the same waste when VC dosing as will a skimmer.

And I hope you were joking about the Orange juice . . . .DO NOT USE OJ!!!!

The best place to get what you need is:

NutriBiotic, Ascorbic Acid, Crystalline Powder, 16 oz (454 g) - iHerb.com

There are $5 coupons on the internet for first time buyers on iherb.

This is the ONLY product which I would advise using for VC dosing at this time.

VC tablets from anywhere else (even most nutrition centers) are non-stabilized, and often contain harmful binders. The link provided is pure crystallized VC and is pH stabilized.

Also, be sure to add directly to saltwater and 2X per day. VC is very unstable in the air. Do not mix with Freshwater as it will unstabilize the pH and you will be adding acid to your tank.

 

Trying to locate a skimmer being a newbie to this science is difficult. I've been looking at the CPR SR3 Protein Skimmer - fits BioCube 29 Gallon - SR3 - AquaBuys.com because it will fit in the back of my tank. The Biocube skimmer is worthless and was returned for a full refund after 6months of usage . Can you recommend something that would be 150%+ the volume of my 29g Biocube that isn't going to empty my savings account (broke college student) wouldnt mind buying one already used either if i can find one!

As far as the OJ goes, I think the orange coloration of my clown would really start to pop don't you!!! Hahaha, I'm so finicky about what goes into my tank I would never add anything I wasn't sure about, let alone something as acidic as orange juice! But if people are dosing with vinegar and or sugar, realistically you'd think organic orange juice wouldn't be a big problem

 

Seems like that is a pretty good skimmer. I do not own a BC so I have a sump in which I can put my skimmer. But if you do some more searching for reviews for the CPR skimmer you can hear firsthand from ppl that have used them. The price looks good too.

I wonder what the actual effectiveness of orange juice would be . . . .

 

Well after reading some of the stuff people use for carbon dosing I do not understand why not? If it's organic than you know it doesn't contain preservatives. Also people are using Vit C and some use sugars, basically OJ consists of citric acid, sugars, and water. Composed within the sugars and acids in the orange are basically flavonoids(which are used by plants for coloration I believe) and hesperidin which is an antioxidant, all of which seem to sound like a positive additive to the reef system but this is just coming from a 24 y.o who is still working on his degree :/

 

Put it to you this way:

Until someone else can show the effectiveness of OJ OVER the VC dosing supplement I currently use - I will not be dumping any tropicana in my tank. First - it is certainly not pH stabilized so that right there is a red flag. Given the concentrtation of VC within OJ - it may require enough such that adding it to the tank will drop pH. Secondly, organic or not, there are many compounds within OJ which are "unknown" in terms of their individual or more importantly, synergistic effect on water chemistry or tank inhabitant health.

While I am not saying it's a "no-go" - I have some serious reservations about it until I see someone else try with repeatable results which are documented in a reasonably scientifically-centric experiment.

Might be something we see in the future. Who would have ever thought some would be carbon dosing? or feeding bacterial with bioplastics? So you may yet be on to something.

 

I think I'm closer to being on something rather than being on to something... I really like the idea of providing immune boosters to the tank, should provide an overall happy animal that is able to not just grow but thrive due to a strong immune system. From what I've read unfortunately I won't want to try this until I add a skimmer to my system to remove the excess. Personally I do not believe I need a skimmer for a 29g tank. I do 10g WC twice a month, hoping to reduce it to 3g per week to create a little more stability within the system. But also I might want to purchase a skimmer for when my the bio load in my tank starts to add up. Right now I have a modest CuC, two fish(6line and ocellaris) and some leathers. Not very demanding tank but once I put in those $100 frags I'll probably want to make sure I'm removing any access nutrients and proteins which I assume will basically get rid of my GHA, which isn't a problem but does exist

 

soaking your food will help to a point. getting the tank water up to 30-50 ppm will show a whole different affect.