Two overflow drains or a drain and a return

Because Herbie is not a siphon like a Bean so to speak. Don't even care to open that can of worms again.... but it is just a drain... a drain that has a water level over it of 6 inches or so... then the emergency is technically 6" higher before it starts to flow...the Herbie starts flowing as the overflow fills up and there is no air to purge... yes air after the gate, but not before because it is an open pipe. So it does not back up like a Bean does on start up... it just flows. The air will eventually purge after the gate valve for no bubbles in the sump. It's the elbow on top of your pipe and the fact that the emergency is at the same level before the main gets full flow after purging air.

 

...nm

 

Yes... and now we are back to Herbie as I mentioned. I don't really see why a Bean would not work... small differnces in level should not really play a role, but Beans need to be just right for it all to work together... but regardless, those running a Herbie with dual overflows have to tie the two mains together because balancing two mains with two gates just does not work.

You don't have to use sweep y or anything, regular 90s work fine. You put 2- 1" lines in to a 1.5 inch line (which flows more than 2x1") and regulate with one valve.Both emergency drains should have separate lines going to the sump. At least then you are assured two 1" emergency lines and no chance for both to be 100% blocked.

A Bean really needs to be built like a Bean was intended to be built for all the functionality and interaction to work right... Herbies are much much better at configuring to a pre drilled tank.

 

So then I assume the main pipe on a herbie has no elbow or anything on top of it, just a plain open pipe facing upwards? And the gate valve merely adjusts how much water can drain down it? I was just assuming it was a full siphon. Okay that makes more sense to me now.

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No sweat... That's a design feature of Herbie and the same operating concept brought forward by Bean... to be silent you must have a flooded pipe, or one that the water cascades down the sides.... So a Herbie is just a "stand" pipe. You regulate the level in the overflow to about 6" above it to keep it flooded and no vortex. On top of that "stand pipe" there is a pipe and strainer setup to keep things out.... but when the pumps are off, the overflow box will drain down to that stand pipe level.

There is some self regulation to it... as the level rises or falls in the overflow box, more or less will flow through the valve due to changes in head pressure.... when it get's to say an inch over that regulated level, then it goes down the emergency.

The Bean does have better regulation... cause it has the open channel. So the siphon does it's job, then the open channel has more range to take a little over flow or a lot before it starts making noise. The Herbie does have less... cause of the water level drops too much in the overflow, then that starts making noise from the water fall... and then only so much before emergency...

But that is the beauty of a modified Herbie with two drains the same size... you can have a open channel like a Bean and still have plenty of emergency capacity if anything should go wrong.... If I was going to make a custom tank I would simply use a big drain for the main and one the same size (maybe even a larger one) for a open channel and call it good. The open channel has more capacity because the main is actually throttled.

 

Lots of good info here but way over my head. I will end up going with four drains I think as I feel you can never be too safe.

 

Actually, you can. I mean drill 2 more holes and you can have 6 drains... point is you do not need them.

The whole point of a pre drilled tank is to clean things up. A overflow box is good and then running returns up it keeps things looking clean and you don't see a bunch of plumbing. So tank makers figure how much a line size can handle with gravity, then go by a turnover rate and give you drains. You only need 1000 gph of water moving at most, and thats overkill. You have 1200 gph of drain capacity, but you are going with 2400 ghp of drain capacity. And moving more water than you need to just because you can costs more power and money. You only want to move as much as you need to. There just isn't a good reason for it.

At least yours is in wall and you won't see plumbing going up the back, I guess there is no harm, but there is no benefit either and it is just more plumbing you have to buy and install.

I'm am sorry for getting side tracked on the discussion. Herbies and Beans are not really that complicated, and worth mentioning when yo uask about plumbing, but not everyone wants to do them.

 

No problem at all. I really do appreciate the help and am always happy to learn. Going to see how loud the set up is with the 4 drains and go from there. Nice write up by the way. Lots of great info in your signature!!

 

another problem you have is the teeth on the overflow... a friend of mine did that on his 150 single overflow he did the double overflow idead ... well the teeth was what kept holding him up.. he had to make them bigger etc...
of course his aquarium never seem to have much success.. i kept on telling him thiers too much flow through the sump... he was pushing a dart ...
he had so much flow it wasnt even funny and running two tunzes 6100s with other tunzes as well..
just going over kill if you ask me... trying to do the "tim the toolman " tank lol

i would recommend using the drains that are given with the tank... marineland is not totally stupid in my opinion. i have used them for years with the durso and they are almost dead silent after they slime up...
im a big fan of the eheim 1262.. extremely quiet pump and would work perfect for you as far as sump ,, skimmer ...fuge ratio...

but as many say this is all opinions.. i have done this for 7 years... and i find less throught the sump is better... im a fan of power heads i run vortechs now and a mag 24 on my 270.... only because i picked up a new one for 87 shipped(mag 24) on ebay..

again

 

No problem at all. I have my opinions, but there are plenty of ways to skin a cat. Which way is "best" is debatable. Accomplishing the job is the main concern. We are all free to run our systems how ever we see fit. I did plenty of experimenting on mine. Enjoy.