Sump/Refuge Design

Please provide your critiques and comments to this design. Based on all my reading it seems like I have incorporated all the features that I've read about. I appreciate the comments; I would much rather take my time and do it right.

Schematic uploaded here :

MMcDonald Sump Design - 3reef Photos

Display Tank is 55 gal

Sump/Refuge consists of a 40 gal tank and two 10 gal tanks.

Overload is rated at 1200 GPH with two inch lines. Both of those lines will drain into the first 10 gal tank. This tank will include a Vertex IN-100 skimmer. Baffles for bubble trap before a gravity drain into second 10 gal tank.

Second 10 gal tank will have a 1000 GPH pump in it behind a second bubble trap. Pump will feed a 5 valve manifold. 1 valve will feed a refuge. 1 valve will be used to drain water for water changes. 1 valve will the skimmer tank to allow water rate control. 2 valves will return to the display tank. The water change valve will nominally be closed. Therefore, I will have approximately 250GPH into the Refuge and 500-750GPH into the DT depending on how much I flow into the skimmer tank.

Refuge consistent of four stages. First stage is Filter mat and bioballs in custom built acrylic. I will be able to remove the acrylic to clean the filter mat and bioballs. Acrylic will drain into second stage; a 5 gal chamber filled with live rock. Baffles force water to exit through bottom and into refuge,

Third stage is 20 gal refuge with 4" DSB. 2" mud covered by 2" sand. Chaeto macroalgae. Small center baffle forces mixed flow through refuge but bottom of baffle remains 2-3" above surface of sand to prevent stirring it up.

Fourth chamber is additional 5 gal section filled with live rock. Gravity drain back into 10 gal pump tank.



Comments??? I want to put together a "first class" system.

Another thing is that I don't know what else to plan for in the future. I hear about reactors and dosing and UV filters. I don't know where to allocate space for those or if I'll need them.

Planning keeping mostly corals with a few fish.

Appreciate any feedback to make this good.

Mark

 

Looks awful complicated to me. JMO I would go with 1 big tank and baffle it off the way I wanted. My question is when you lose power is the 10 gallon tanks going to be able to hold all the water? I am not sure if I would chance it. Very nice layout, But I think 1 Big tank would be a better choice. IMO

I added a pic of mine to give you another idea. Hope it helps.

 

Seems very complicated to me which usually leads to problems. Keep it as simple as possible is my suggestion. I would eliminate the two 10 gallon tanks and use only the 40 with a couple bafffles.
Here is a pic of my 30G sump when it was under construction 6 years ago and a few more recent ones.






It is a 30G long AGA aquarium with 1/4" acrylic baffles siliconed in place. The display is a 100G with a 1" overflow which you see drops down into the center(skimmer section with a Turboflotor 1000 Classic) and branches off with 1/2" to feed the refugium which is on the right end and overflows over a tall baffle back into the center section. The left side is the return pump chamber and holds a OR3500 return pump after three over under over baffles. The refugium holds some live rock rubble and chaetomorpha macroalgae.

Its not the best but is very simple and has worked well for 6 years. I do not have a DSB in the refugium as the display holds 330 lbs of Southdown about 5-6" deep. Small sandbeds like in a refugium have very limited value since they have little surface area. You may want to read up on DSB's with Dr. Ron Schimek here:
Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

He is the expert when it comes to DSB's in aquaria.

 

Heres my sump/refugium set up, maybe it gives you an idea.


























and here the new controller




Luna

 

Lots of maintenance and it is complicated. Not that it won't "work", but simple is always best.

A 40g fuge/sump is a fair volume for a 55g. The fuge will not be able to take any capacity. It will just overflow at a set height. Everything will over flow to the 10g return tank. Not a lot of volume to catch water when pump is off.

You are filter socking the drains, then skimming it, then sending it to the fuge.... where it is filtered more. Not much is making it to the fuge.

There does not need to be a recirc to the skimmer section. A simple valve controling flow to the DT will sufice. Your skimmer will never run dry since the level is controled by overflow. No need to just circulate water for the heck of it.

With all the filter socks and live rock rubble and bio balls, it will be labor intensive to keep clean. I have no filters and clean nothing. Just my skimmer. Love not cleaning filters. JM .02

 

Think everyone else has hit the nail on the head...looks too complicated. My first thought was, what happens when the power goes out? You might have that figured out, but would still recommend a more simple design...

Here's a picture of my setup when I first started(not so neat and clean anymore). Certainly nothing fancy. Have mangroves and chaeto in the fuge to the right and more chaeto in the high flow area between the skimmer and return pump.

What happens when my power goes out? Good question! Start praying!! No, have battery backup for main return and then automatic generator that kicks on a minute or two later...

 

I'm with the rest of them,keep it simple as possible,less room for error(floods).Here's a link that might help you out.
Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

 

Leave it to a NASA Geek to over complicate things. I guess I am too used to super complicated sometimes. But then again, my NASA work needs that complication. THANKS for catching me that. Funny thing is that I spend a lot of time at work trying to simplify designs.

Part of the complication was driven by the fact that I already put the baffles in the 30g... in the wrong spots before I found 3reef.com. I also just had the 10 gals laying in the garage so I figured I'd put them to use. I wish I would've found 3reef.com sooner. It would have saved me some head ache and re-work. I think I am going to bite the bullet and tear out the existing baffels and start over. Better to do it right the first time and not regret it later.

One thing that is confusing me is that there seems to be no "right" answer. The guy at the LFS near my brother in Denver that I visited for Thanksgiving told me no protein skimmers at all and only use wet-dry. His rationale was that protein skimmer take out 'good stuff' and 'bad'. Everything I've read says protein skimmers are a must. He also wasn't a fan of DSB, but again, everything I read seems like they make sense.

Hope you each are willing to critique a delta design. I'll tear down the existing baffles and try again on something simpler. This time I'll get the critique first!

Thanks... appreciate the critique.

Mark

PS -- Really enjoying learning something new. Thanks for teaching and sharing.

 

Hope you didn't take all this too hard but believe me it will help you out in the long run.You are right,there's more than one "right" way to do it but most of us that been there have found out the more simple it is the better,there's enough husbandry that needs to be dealt with on a regular basis so we try and keep it to a minimum.There's also the risk of a flood when adding a sump, but again, keeping it as simple as possible keeps the odds of this happening down considerably.

 

Speaking as a some what newbie myself....... I would rather sit down with a tech manual than a novel. I tried to read as much as I could, like I always do, and yes... there is no "right" answer. Lots of conflicting opinions. Lots of old timers still using under gravel filters on great tanks. Wet/drys had their day. Berlin method.... Now the current trend seems to be agressive skimming and fuges. Many people do not belive in DSB in the DT, but remote DSBs seem to be in favor. Get's confusing.

Skimming is documented and quite accepted as very benificial. 99% of demanding well run reefs have them. They remove organics BEFORE they breakdown. Plenty of myths that they remove "good" stuff.... only in the sense that some "good" stuff is bound in the waste itself. Are there good looking tanks out there not running skimmers....sure. However the overwhelming amount of oustanding tanks running them (even agressively overskimming) speaks for themselves.

The reef tank is a artificial ecosystem. No matter how hard we try, there is absolutely no way we can put a chunk of natural ocean in our living rooms. My approach has been to provide as much of the peices as possible, even if they don't measure up to what happens in the ocean. To that... DSBs seem to be a integral part of a healthy reef. There are many articles on DSBs and Remote DSBs. You will read plenty of pros and cons. Come to a conclusion your self. I choose to run 3 inches in my DT and 5 inches in my fuge. Many outstanding tanks go bare bottom in the DT, but have a RDSB. Personally, the DT comes down to asthetics to me. I don't care for bare bottoms. Sure you will read of all sorts of catastrophic things associated to DSBs going bad. It is my (rookie)OPINION that most of those can be attributed to UNHEALTHY DSBs, not properly functioning maintained ones. You may come to a different conclusion.

You will read many opinions that Wet/Dry filters are akin to putting a chunck of Putonium in your tank. I am not one of those. I had no problem running bioballs. I do not believe they "generate" nitrates. However, there are just better means of biological filtration. Live rock/fuges/DSB. Not only do those have other benefits, they are very good biological filters. So when you tie it all together, there simply is no need for bio balls in a reef tank.

I started out much like you. I'm a little OCD and enjoy the gear. Filter filter filter, route everything all over the place..... ripped it all out and simplified. I have no filters at all. Just a skimmer an DSB in my fuge with cheato. Run carbon, and just started GFO. Feed what I want and have a good clean up crew. Everything seems very happy and growing well. It's been a hoot so far.

Bring on the Delta design.;D