RO question

Discussion in 'General Reef Topics' started by lillys Grandad, Aug 5, 2011.

to remove this notice and enjoy 3reef content with less ads. 3reef membership is free.

  1. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Troubleshoot your system to find your problem.
    What is your tap water TDS, RO only TDS and RO/DI TDS. What is the water temperature, water pressure and do you know if you have CO2 in your water? What is the source of the water, domestic well, surface water treatment plant, municipal wells etc? What does your utility use for a residual disinfectant?
    And finally what is your exact waste ratio.

    The answers to the above will help you decide what needs replacing.

    I will suggest using Spectrapure SilicaBuster DI resin right off since it is designed specifically for reef systems and will outperform all other resins by at least 20% if not more. I find the MaxCap/SilicaBuster combination lasts me over 1100 gallons compared to all others resins I tried previously which lasted 150 gallons no matter what I did.
    BRS does not mix their own resins, they buy in bulk and you get what they get. Spectrapure blends every ounce of their resins in house based on thousands of hours of testing.
    Untitled Document

    Troubleshoot your system first though no matter what you end up buying so you are not throwing good money away.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Click Here!

  3. lillys Grandad

    lillys Grandad Horrid Stonefish

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Location:
    Rio Linda, California
    Nice.
    I will give it a try...So, I need the MaxCap and the SilicaBuster, and then mix them myself, am I reading this correct?
    It would really be great to reduce the usage. :p
    My Tap TDS is only around 130 /140, no Co2 and a municipal well...pressure is fine and temperature is normal... I went through all that a few years back with a fellow from Buckeye supply, dont know about additives and or disinfectants in the water....
    Right now, If I put in a new refilled DI cartridge,and started filling buckets, I would bet it would be at 2 or 3 TDS at about 75 /100 gallons, which seems to match the numbers you quoted.
    My tank is wonderful..I have no issues.. I was looking for a solution to this DI usage...hope I have found it.
    Thanx.
     
  4. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    No, we need your exact readings, 130/140, fine and normal tell us nothing when troubleshooting a system. What are the exact TDS numbers, temperature, pressure and waste ratio. You probably spoke to Russ at Buckeye. Too bad you didn't buy either his Premium system or one of Spectrapures, as you have found out there really is a difference.
    You have a problem somwhere and without specifics no one can troubleshoot the problem and make an accurate recommendation for a fix. I hate to see someone throw money at a problem when the solution could be as simple as reseating the membrane in the housing or replacing the membrane.

    You do not mix the MaxCap and SilicaBuster together. The MaxCap is intended asa "roughing" or pre DI if you will. It is the first DI cartridge in a two DI cartridge system with the Silicabuster last.

    At 130 or 140 TDS even with a poorly performing RO membrane your DI should last 6 months at least.

    Something that may help, DI resins have a shelflife of about 6 months even when packed and stored properly. By that I mean fresh, damp, vacuum sealed in a mylar foil or zip loc bag and stored in the back of the refrigerator out of direct lighting. Resin that has been allowed to dry out or has been stored in the garage in an open bag or not re sealed will last a matter of weeks and not be very effective. If your resin is not fresh I would expect it to exhaust quickly. Never buy more than you can use in a couple months and always buy in individually sized packages or re vacuum seal it if possible. I used to use a Seal A Meal sealer and bags back when I used normal bulk resins but now my resin lasts so long I buy about once a year when I start to see a reading of 1 TDS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  5. lillys Grandad

    lillys Grandad Horrid Stonefish

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Location:
    Rio Linda, California
    Ok..putting that together for you....what was the formula for computing pressure? , X amount of water, in Y amount of time, equate pressure....something like that.
    Thanx again.
     
  6. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Pressure is taken with a pressure gauge.

    Rejection Rate is tap TDS minus RO only TDS divided by tap TDS times 100.

    Waste ratio is measure the waste flow for 1 minute then treated flow for one minute then compare the two, should be 4:1 waste to treated or close.
     
  7. lillys Grandad

    lillys Grandad Horrid Stonefish

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Location:
    Rio Linda, California
    Well before I go any further...the waste water to treated water ratio is
    1:1 .... 2 cups in a minute treated, to 2 and 1/8 cup in a minute waste.
    something is really wrong here.
     
  8. Click Here!

  9. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Your membrane is shot, you cannot run a RO membrane without having at least a 3:1 and preferrably 4:1 waste ratio to keep the surface clean. At 1:1 or close to it dissolved solids have built up and solidified on the membrane rendering it useless.
    The waste ratio is the most overlooked but possibly the most important piece of setting up a RO or RO/DI system. Most all vendors use a fixed "one size fits all" flow restrictor and its rarely the correct size, then to top it off the end user never boters to check it.
     
  10. lillys Grandad

    lillys Grandad Horrid Stonefish

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Location:
    Rio Linda, California
    OK..checkd my records.....time flys...glad you jumped in.

    I recall going over the flow resrictor with Russ....it is the correct one...this was not always this way.....just started around December.

    edit..
    well, according to my journal, around December was when I put the mem. flush valve on...I just took it off and it appears that I put the flow restrictor in pointing the wrong direction...just changed that and removed flush vaulve, I'll see how it functions now....my records show it should be time for a new mem. also though.
    edit...
    now it is 2:1 waste to treated..... So I ruined my Mem. yes?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  11. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    More than likely. Once TDS solidifies on the membrane no amount of flushing in the world will remove it. Large commercial and municipal systems use chemical treatments to keep membranes fresh but we don't have that luxury in homeowner units.

    Throw the flush valve away, its worthless and all it did was lighten your wallet.

    Pick up a 90 GPD Spectrapure treated and tested high rejection rate 90 GPD membrane and matched flow restrictor for $39. They also have their absolute rated 0.5 micron prefilter, o.5 micron 20,000 gallon carbon block and SilicaBuster DI cartridge on sale for $52 for the set, you would have a superb RO/DI with those and the membrane could easily last 10+ years if you stick with the high quality replacements on the prescribed schedule.
    Untitled Document
     
  12. lillys Grandad

    lillys Grandad Horrid Stonefish

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Location:
    Rio Linda, California
    Flush valve removed.
    Will order new mem and flow restrictor.
    Thanx a bunch.
    I'll let ya know how things turn out.