QT Issues with ICH

OK. I've been watching my flame angel and kole tang for two weeks as they have been fighting off an ich infection that the flame angel brought in. So far the flame angel seems fine, but this morning the kole tang started showing some flashing and some uncharacteristic swimming behavior. They are both still eating.

My problem is this:
My QT has live sand and a few pounds of live rock. Can I medicate a tank with LS and LR in it? I know Hypo will kill off a lot of stuff. I can remove LR, but dunno bout sand. Two part question guys. . . sorry.

I was thinking I'm going to catch the kole tang when I get home, which hopefully won't be too difficult since he seems to be a little disoriented. I need suggestions with this:

Should I A) FW dip then into QT and continuous dose copper?

or B) Copper dip then do hypo?

or C) Formalin dip then do hypo or copper continuous?

or D) No dip and straight to QT with hypo or continuous copper?

Fish IS showing signs of stress.

 

This is just a suggestion, it worked for me..
I had a victorious battle with MI at the end of last year by QTing the fish and treating the qt tank with the recommended 2 drop/gallon dose of Formalin MS. I also gave the fish a formalin bath every other day at half the recommended dose for doing that. When the fish stopped showing signs of flashing and spots I stopped the baths but continued dosing the qt. I did not use hyposalinity. My dt sat fallow for 8 weeks.
At the time I only had the one qt and didn't want to use any copper in it because of the saturation/silicone factor.
I'm not sure but I think copper and formalin will kill most of the bacteria in your rock and sand.

 

Why do you have live rock and sand in your QT? It really serves no purpose there, because if you do medicate your QT it will kill off a lot of bacteria and make your LR and LS un-useable in your DT ever again. If you are ok with only having the LR and LS in the QT, you can medicate even with the LR and LS there. But be aware that they will not provide any biological filtration while you are medicating, and you will have to do frequent water changes to prevent ammonia/nitrite/nitrate from building up.

Of all of your options, I would personally the last one. If the medication you are using is effective, there is no need for FW dips. Copper-based medications are proven effective against marine ich. Formalin has not been shown to be effective 100% of the time. I would use copper and just monitor the levels carefully with a test kit.

 

If they are eating then leave them in they will fight it off. Once they stop eating and start breathing heavy or laying on there side then you QT.

 

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. By the time they are lying on their side and breathing heavily the chances are that they will die. With that degree of illness coupled with the stress of being moved to a QT and then medicated, they will almost certainly die. IMO if your fish have been suffering for many weeks/months with ich and it is not going away in spite of excellent nutrition and water quality, you need to make an executive decision at that point whether or not to medicate while they are still healthy enough to survive treatment.

 

Worked for me but ok lol

 

I have LR and LS in my QT because my QT used to be my DT. I upgraded to a 75 and I left the sand in my 30, then down the road I decided to rescape my 75 and I wanted less rock at the time. I will probably take the rock out of my QT and put it back in my DT. I worry about the water quality of dosing copper in a tank with LS cuz of the die off though. I guess I'll just have to do 20% change every day for a few days. possibly a week.. I dunno I'll stay on top of my testing and I'll let everyone know how it goes... COME ON FIVE O CLOCK...

P.S. I'm really nervous. I went to LFS on my lunch break and bought a large net and some formalin and some copper and another digital thermometer so I can be sure temperatures are right.

 

I completely disagree. By that time it is too late; the fish is probably going to die. I think at the first sign of white spot the fish should be quarantined and treated. I'd keep it out of the display for at least a month too.

My advice:

Since the fish in the first post have shown the ability to fight the parasite to some extent, I'd to a hypo-salinity treatment. I think this could be done in a LR/LS tank, although some organisms may die off, which could cause other problems.

If you think you can wait for a while, I'd start establishing a bio-filter in the Q tank, such as a power filter or sponge filter, and then start removing the LR and sand. Once that is done, transfer the fish and begin treatment.

I've heard of people keeping a thin layer of sand in their Q-tanks, but I prefer to keep a PVC structure only.

 

Well.. When I got home from work the day I posted this stuff, I was stoked for taking the fish out and QTing and treating. But.. when I got home the fish appeard to be fine, white spots were gone (I realize this is just because of their life cycle) and the fish appeared to be fine. And progressively since then the fish has been slightly better looking in the morning. I think night time is the most stressful period since he looks worst at dawn,

But the thing is that he is always healthy enough to stay the hell away from my nets. He has shown little disorientation since that first morning. And he may not be perfectly healthy but he's still eating like a pig, and I just don't know if I'd be able to catch him at all.

 

Regarding your questions about water quality if you do a copper treatment - you are right to worry about this. Daily 20% water changes won't cut it. With all those fish in there you are looking at 50% water changes - for the entire time the fish are in QT. That's a lot of salt you'll go through. But it would not be different if you used hyposalinity - that will also effectively kill off the bacteria in your biofilter. Either way, I'd go with the copper or the hypo. Not the formalin. If you are going to do the quarantine, do something that is guaranteed to work.