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Hydrogen fuel cell car! HAHA!

Discussion in 'The Bucket' started by Ryland, May 4, 2011.

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alpha_03 Bubble Tip Anemone

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Powerman said: ↑

Flammability is an issue though because hydrogen is the smallest molecule and it is hard to seal. We uses hydrogen at the plant on a daily basis. Everything has to be special to contain H2.

Flammability is also a problem with H2 because the flame is invisible. Gas will not combust at room temp, but H2 will as soon as it hits the right concentration.

It is a problem.
Click to expand...

And it's high presure- which not just usually creates a flame- but an explosion.

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

#151

blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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alpha_03 said: ↑

One other thing, to create hydrogen you need a source of heat in a contained enviroment at over 2000 degrees, then a way to store it, and a way to seperate out what you do not want, is this what you have?

Show me.
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The alternative method, which, as I understand it, Ryland is using, is to run electricity through water. No high heat environment, and no purification is necessary.

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

#152
blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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alpha_03 said: ↑

And it's high presure- which not just usually creates a flame- but an explosion.
Click to expand...

It also makes it much harder to actually rupture a storage tank filled with the stuff.

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

#153
alpha_03 Bubble Tip Anemone

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blackraven1425 said: ↑

The alternative method, which, as I understand it, Ryland is using, is to run electricity through water. No high heat environment, and no purification is necessary.
Click to expand...

But this doesn't matter you still need to heat water to a given degree to be able to cause the molecules to separate- the source of this energy used to create that is of concern, as well is the ability to capture this now "free radical" amongst the mix and then use it. W/O any doubt- a storage device is a must. These "critter's" exist at nearly the speed of light.

Show me this device.

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

#154
blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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Powerman said: ↑

Flammability is an issue though because hydrogen is the smallest molecule and it is hard to seal. We uses hydrogen at the plant on a daily basis. Everything has to be special to contain H2.

Flammability is also a problem with H2 because the flame is invisible. Gas will not combust at room temp, but H2 will as soon as it hits the right concentration.

It is a problem.
Click to expand...

Knowing that an unknown spill is gasoline is a problem too. You know what people did? They added benzene and tolulene, so it has a distinct odor. I'm fairly sure that people will figure out something we can add to hydrogen to make it burn visibly.

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

#155

blackraven1425 Giant Squid

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alpha_03 said: ↑

But this doesn't matter you still need to heat water to a given degree to be able to cause the molecules to separate- the source of this energy used to create that is of concern, as well is the ability to capture this now "free radical" amongst the mix and then use it. W/O any doubt- a storage device is a must. These "critter's" exist at nearly the speed of light.

Show me this device.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that using electrolysis, you don't need much voltage to produce hydrogen and oxygen. The temperature is just an efficiency enhancer in electrolysis AFAIK, since you're using the property of the charges of hydrogen and oxygen to perform the separation.

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

blackraven1425, May 9, 2011

#156

alpha_03 Bubble Tip Anemone

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Let me provide a few links- then you can decide for yourselves:

Hydrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hydrogen

Hydrogen

Behind the Hydrogen Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant | Common Dreams

Hydrogen production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

#157
alpha_03 Bubble Tip Anemone

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Nor does Natural gas, Natural gas has no odor- this is added as a safety feature.

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

#158
leighton1245 Horrid Stonefish

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blackraven1425 said: ↑

At the very least, I would think you have numbers on the number of miles you drove and the number of gallons you put into the tank on each fill up. Do you have those numbers?
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This at the least would be helpful

alpha_03 said: ↑

Let me provide a few links- then you can decide for yourselves:

Hydrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hydrogen

Hydrogen

Behind the Hydrogen Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant | Common Dreams

Hydrogen production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

lol i was just posting those also and some numbers on the amount of LH2 that is takes for NASA to put a shuttle in space lol

leighton1245, May 9, 2011

leighton1245, May 9, 2011

#159
alpha_03 Bubble Tip Anemone

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As I am well aware how posting links as evidence works, this is pure science. Hydrogen

On the Earth, hydrogen is not very common, existing only in the thin sheet of water covering 70% of the Earth, as only 0.127% by weight of the lithosphere, and in the small amount of hydrocarbons and organic matter. It is present only to about 5 x 10-5% by volume of air (about the same as nitrous oxide, and less than methane or carbon monoxide). It tends to become more important at very high altitudes, rising to about 1% of a very, very rare atmosphere. The hydrogen atoms at high altitudes may be the result of the solar wind, as well as the hydrogen that has diffused from below, and all this hydrogen is gradually lost, since the Earth's gravity is not sufficient to retain it. Hydrogen gas is present in small amounts in volcanic gases where it is produced by chemical reactions, but more of it appears combined as hydrogen sulphide and nascent water. There are no practical sources of hydrogen gas. All that we use must be manufactured with the expense of energy from hydrogen compounds.
The hydrogen atom is composed of a very light, negatively charged electron, and a heavy, positively charged proton. The weight of the proton is 1.00758 atomic mass units (about 6.02 x 1023 protons weigh 1.00758 grams). The electron weighs about 1/1837 of the proton's weight. The diameter of a proton has a fairly definite meaning, and is 1.6 x 10-13 cm. The diameter of a hydrogen atom in its ground state is around 1 x 10-8 cm, so the ratio of the diameters is about 1.6 x 10-5, which makes the ratio of the volumes 4.1 x 10-15. The volume occupied by the electron is all but a tiny fraction of the volume of the atom, while 99.95% of the atom's mass is in the proton.
The question of the "discovery of hydrogen" only has meaning after the recognition of the significance of chemical elements in the 18th century. As soon as strong mineral acids were discovered, dissolving metals in them often produced bubbles of hydrogen. Paracelsus could very well have made some hydrogen, and even made it explode, but there was no recognition of the significance of these observations, or of the real nature of gases. Henry Cavendish first studied the gas in 1760 or 1766, and showed that it burned to water with Priestley's oxygen. Lavoisier named it hydrogen, "water-former," in 1783, the first year that it was used in balloon ascents.
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Soon after Volta's discovery of the electric cell, Nicholson and Carlisle electrolyzed water to form O2 and H2, then recombined the gases to show that the water was reconstituted. This is an excellent demonstration, showing that two volumes of hydrogen combines with one volume of oxygen to make one volume of water vapor. Many people think of this as a way to manufacture hydrogen, but it is relatively inefficient and requires much more electrical energy than is recovered by burning the product. Nevertheless, photovoltaic cells and wind turbines can produce electricity without any expensive inputs, so this may be a good way to store the energy generated when the sun shines and the wind blows for when it is dark and calm
Click to expand...

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

alpha_03, May 9, 2011

#160

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