YES ecoBAK removes PHOSPHATES!!!!

Discussion in 'Warner Marine' started by Jon Warner, Sep 17, 2012.

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  1. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    I keep running into threads where people claim that "bio-pellets" don't remove Phosphates.

    NONSENSE! ecoBAK does remove Phosphates! Unlike the competing products and their bio-polymer... OUR bio-polymer effectively crushes both NO3 and PO4.
     
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  3. dowtish

    dowtish Horrid Stonefish

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    Jon, I have seen some folks mention this, but it has only been from people using bio-pellets and not specifically just EcoBak for at least 18 months or longer. It seems that over time the phosphates begin to creep back up. The nitrates stay undetectable, and most of these reports say they go back to using GFO in addition to the bio-pellets.

    Any thoughts on this?
     
  4. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Yes I've noticed that too... there REALLY is a difference in bio-polymer content.

    It's not just the bio-polymer, it's the way it's produced.

    A lot of it has to do with the surface area and composition of the pellet.
     
  5. gcarroll

    gcarroll Zoanthid

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    Amen! I can attest to that! Keep in mind that it needs to be run in conjunction with a good skimmer for optimal results.

    I run mine without supplementing GAC or GFO. Phosphate on the Hanna photometer is always <0.02 (usually 0.00). No one has run ecoback longer than me.
     
  6. dowtish

    dowtish Horrid Stonefish

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    I personally just experienced my P04 levels creep back up after running EcoBak for over 20 months. All I had to do was just add more EcoBak and increase the tumble just a hair, and they fell back down in 3 days.
     
  7. Servillius

    Servillius Montipora Digitata

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    Jon,

    I love the product. My wife and I each run it on our tanks. We also both run phosphate removing media because our phosphates were creeping up on both tanks and becoming a problem. We had increasing algae growth which has been eliminated by GFO.

    I'm no longer much of an expert on these things having left chemistry behind 15 years ago, but as a matter of initial analysis, I don't see how the your pellets could remove all of both nitrate and phosphate on all tanks. That would require the ratio coming in to match the ratio going out. The ratio out seems to be more of a fixed variable while the ratio in varies by tank. Some tanks, under some feeding regimes, are going to have a problem with one or the other. Since phosphate is a preservative and used in the foods we feed out of proportion with its natural incidence, and for a variety of other reasons, it makes sense phosphate will occasionally creep up.

    I'm not trying to get an argument started and I defer to your expertise. I do want to provide data however. In my experience, phosphate has not been totally eliminated without the use of a remover.
     
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  9. Servillius

    Servillius Montipora Digitata

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    I didn't try this, and I shall.
     
  10. Thatgrimguy

    Thatgrimguy Flying Squid

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    IF, ecoback consumes a higher number of phosphate per each nitrate than your typical pellet then it could be a situation that your phosphate never gets above a low number before another nitrate has popped back up to knock them both back to 0 again.
     
  11. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    So then... it begs the question, why?

    N and P are taken up by the bacteria, and all I have see, but certainly no expert, is that bacteria generally take up these nutrients in a set ratio.

    So I always knew P was taken up, but how is it taken up more with EcoBak over other competing products?


    What I think is the most common mistake with looking at pellets is people looking at them as doing both. The fact is that N and P up take in the system is effected by different processes. They are added in different amounts, and they are taken up with a variety of ways with a variety of amounts and effectiveness. At the end of the day their can be a imbalance, something left over, and t has nothing to do with pellets effectiveness. That one process or another can be limited by N or P.

    But just because someone runs pellets, and they have some P left over... that in no way means it does not remove P. It does not remove P directly like GFO does, but it most certainly takes up P and then removes it via skimmer export.

    Anything you can add to that, or correct my understanding would be awesome.
     
  12. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Yes, if either PO4 or NO3 hit "dead zero" then the other can't be consumed.

    And the ratio of consumption is always stable.

    I believe that PO4 is exported better using ecoBAK. I'd rather not go into the reason why I believe so... but it's in my patent application I wrote and the real-world reviews back up our claim of PO4 reduction.

    If someone has a specific situation, maybe Nitrates of .5ppm and PO4 at .75ppm I'd recommend lowering the PO4 with GFO temporarily until the PO4 and NO3 are both low (Maybe 10% of users need to do so). I've also seen people with undetectable PO4 who can't lower their NO3... this is a more difficult situation as most are uncomfortable dosing PO4 to an aquarium of course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012