Would Introducing New SPS to carbon dosed tank contribute to STN?

Discussion in 'Coral Health' started by Nismo400rgtr, Feb 7, 2011.

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  1. Nismo400rgtr

    Nismo400rgtr Teardrop Maxima Clam

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    I've been battling STN for some time in a few of my SPS. I've done tons of research on the subject and have learned a lot.Never contemplated this thought until now.

    Would Introducing SPS to a carbon dosed tank contribute to STN?

    I've been running Ecobaks going on 5 months now. But I think weather it's solid or liquid carbon dosing is irrelevant. For both, the transition and amount dosed is usually done at a slow pace obviously so as not to shock your inhabitants and minimize possible cyano outbreaks. But wouldn't introducing a new coral to such a system,with an established dosing regimen,shock it ?

    I've noticed STN in a few of my recent acro additions but there are never any signs until after two weeks after introduction.Fragging hasn't helped.I also don't currently use any additives such as amino's,etc. I know there's many factors that can contribute to STN,just wondering the thoughts of fellow reefers on carbon dosing being one of them.

    Ehh Emm...Steve?

    TIA
     
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  3. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Nismo

    I cant with any certainty say it could not

    I can say, that I have introduced frags and in fact fragged SPS corals
    in my tank which has been carbon dosed in 1 form or another since October 2010

    I have not (touch wood) experienced any instance of STN during this period

    having said that, abrupt changes, even changes for the better, can cause this problem

    exposure to more light
    fluctuations in water quality
    significant changes to parameters
    the above 3 and others can bring about a case of STN or worse in SPS corals

    I do used liquid supplements to feed my corals and aminos are ingredients in at least 2 of the products I use (I do this to compensate for nutrients lost as a result of the improved water quality)

    In all honesty, I dont know why you are experiencing STN issues
    there may be other factors in play, aside from the carbon dosing IMO

    Steve
     
  4. sostoudt

    sostoudt Giant Squid

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    If your water is alot cleaner then the old water yes I think it possible.
    although I would think it would show up before 2 weeks.


    I have biopellets and do not share your problem.
    DO you use RO/DI water? are your filters good?
     
  5. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    Does it start at the tips or the base? What is your Alk at?
     
  6. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    what is your introduction method?

    some people acclimatise much like they would with fish, float for temp, then mix water etc

    other people, including myself, remove from bag, place in tub with bag water do a coral dip, rinse in tub of tank water and then place directly in the tank ( not had a single issue doing it this way personally)

    additionally has the SPS issue started since you used the BOOST LED lamps?
    it may be a lighting issue as they are very powerfull

    do you place your corals on sand bed for a couple of days to give them chance to acclimatise?
    then move them up to about half way and leave them there for a couple of days
    then move them up to final resting position?

    I do that, after losing my very 1st 2 x SPS corals due IMHO to placing them to high in my reef tank and light shocking them as a result

    Steve
     
  7. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Powerman makes a great point here
    there are many reports of SPS corals with burned tips caused by carbon dosing in reef tanks with a DKH thats to high

    I have mine set so it maintains at 8.3 - between 7.5 and 8 is often suggested

    Steve
     
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  9. Nismo400rgtr

    Nismo400rgtr Teardrop Maxima Clam

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    Thanks for the replies Guys! ;D I'll try and be as descriptive as possible.

    My thoughts in creating this thread were based on the possibility of nutrient deprivation.I'd be a fool If I didn't admit that I still don't have a handle on the chemical balance,namely ALK.

    I recently aquired an Apex controller and a pair of BRS dosing pumps that I'm sure will help to maintain consistency.

    For now it's manual dosing...via drip by siphoned airline tube.Dosing element mixed in R.O. and also supplements as top-off water. That answers sostoudt's question,however my unit doesn't implement Deionization...upgrade planned for near future.

    Membrane replaced 5 months ago,filters 2 months. I usually let a 5 gallon bucket fill and toss that as waste since I don't have a TDI meter. The following 5 gallons I'll use for my freshwater for dosing or for making fresh saltwater- I use ESV salt and 2 part,Mg. I haven't performed a WC in two weeks while waiting for my new shipment of salt.

    Steve,

    I usually perform the basic temp. sitting for 1/2 hr. then I add about 5 ml of my tank water every 5 minutes for 1/2 hour-dump half the bag and repeat for the next 1/2 hour. Give them a quick (30 second) swish in Revive,then put the coral at my tank bottom in a spot of high flow but the furthest away from my lights. I leave them there for about one week,then put them in they're final position...literally because they die!

    All my SPS are purchased at my LFS where they're kept under 20K MH with the Light fixture suspended at least 3 ft. from the water surface.The frags themselves are usually only inches under the water surface.My ride home is about 45 minutes from the store.

    The Boost Lights were my upgrade way back when I still had T8's as a super newb! They've been my main lighting For months now and most of the corals I currently house were purchased after the lights.Mostly LPS...just have a few SPS. However recently I've supplemented them with some Cree's from Rapid LED. 6 X-RE Blue's(Not royal blue) and 6 X-PG R5 whites.There was a two week difference between the installation of the different colors and I raised my canopy considerably so things could adjust. Currently It's 6 1/2 Inches from the tank surface.I had it at 9 inches when I made the light adjustments.I also have acrylic lids on the tank so I don't loose too much heat during the winter.

    Powerman,
    ...Hard to say where it starts.It's sort of a mix of both. My RP began at the base,then after a week began loosing overall color and I noticed lightening of the tips. My ORA verde began at the tips. What does ALK burn look like?

    And speaking of ALK- I've had a recent unacceptable swing where it was as low as 6.4 and then slowly-over the course of two days-raised back to 7.8 which is where I like to keep it. That was caused by my not being home due to snowmobiling all weekend. Normally it'll only get as low as 7.2. However I've seen the STN before this swing,which was recent,and even when I've kept it fairly steady.I know SPS aren't exceptionally tolerant of ALK swings.Perhaps,I'm not slow enough at introducing it? My two clams don't help matters. Ca is always above 400 and Mg always 1350 or higher. Temps are 79.0-80.0 all day and night. PO4 has been undetectable for as long as I can rememeber and NO3 has been 1ppm for about the same length of time. Salinity is 1.026 but I've read 1.027 at certain instances.

    In terms of feeding. I don't really feed anything that caters to the smaller SPS polyps. I feed a mix of Rod's,mysis and DT Phyto..that's it. My LFS ran out of Zooplanktos S & M that I was planning to add to my feeding regimen. Should have some this week :fingers crossed:

    Nutrient deficiency and ALK were the two causes I could pinpoint.Hopefully both will be remedied shortly and then only time will tell.I've ceased adding SPS until I see noticeable improvement in my current inhabitants.Not all show signs either,but then again not all are the same. I have a milli and a few Monti's(rainbow,sunset) that are growing well.

    Also,I don't run Carbon. Don't have any Leathers. Just My bio-pellet reactor and skimmer.

    Thanks for reading ;)
     
  10. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    With a max of 8 for alk you are well within acceptable range for ULNS and alk.

    My corals were bought from a grower that had more powerful lights than me so I didn't worry about that. I didn't even bother with acclimation. The trip was short... float the bag for temp... swish them in some Coral RX and put them in the tank. He kept his numbers arounfd NSW so mine were kept low too to prevent shock.... cal 420 alk 8 Mg 1300.

    I only had tips burn once on one frag I had for a while and was growing well. And that was after a alk swing.... now that MIGHT have been the cause.... but it just started melting after that. Could not really attribute it to anything. It just kept spreading... well finally someone told me the only thing I could do is get it out of flow.... I didn't think it was in too strong of flow, but had nothing to loose. Put it in a quiet place a little lower and it slowly turned around and healed back up.

    I am by no means any sort of expert on corals. Seems nobody really knows the mechanisims behind STN or RTN or why tips burn at high alk or low nutrients. Heck... even gurus in the hobby with decades of experience have a tank crash and all they can do is scratch their heads.

    Some times things just get sick. All you can really do is minimize stresss... and that means stability stability stability. Swings are not going to help anything. Get the dosing pumps on the Apex and smooth that out. Sometimes stress causes a illness but then they just can't come back. So minimize stress... and as far as now... perhaps get it out of flow and give some peace and quiet and and get some food in the tank and see if it heals.

    Feed it. Nothing heals without enough food. You may need to look at what you do feed.... perhaps your stuff is just marginal in nutrition and these two pieces were just the canaries in the mine. A little bit of stress and they were the first to show.

    I'm just guessing and trying to throw some stuff out to look at. I don't really know but I do know it can be frustrating.