worried about my params

I completely agree that you are absolutely correct that it is painful to the fish. No argument. I did not at any point disagree with this.

My argument is that that doesn't make it 100% wrong to do. I've eaten Salmon directly out of the river, still alive and squirming. I can't imagine that felt good for the fish... (oregon, BTW, is a beautiful state)

But I don't think the "well being" of the fish is really our primary concern when we purchase live caught fish with the survival rates I am sure you are aware of. What's the word for that... hypo-something



Anyway, I'm all for you letting new users know there are other less "cruel" ways to do it, I think that's great. But it is absolutely not 100% wrong to cycle this way. The well being of the fish is not the reason we're putting them in our tanks...

 

dude, your position has everything to do with morals. Harming a fish is not math, it is not right or wrong - there is no definition. Whether or not you (in the general sense) feel it is wrong depends entirely on your relevant morals (maybe ethics is the better word?)

I have no problem with doing this and I don't find it wrong to do so. Sorry, I grew up fishing with my dad and poking fish eyes on the floor of our Glastron. I grew up feeding gold fish to my baby croc and several snakes.

In fact, when I put a damsel in the tank to cycle, my hope is that it will die. I get that is morbid to some folks, but it's a common perception and I feel you have no right to tell me I'm wrong for doing it. You have every right to advise on alternatives, but none to tell new users it is 100% wrong.

 

did you really jus say harming a fish is not right or wrong?

 

yip. in context of this conversation, I believe that.

 

It's amazing how skewed people's idea of right and wrong are. Nothing in the world proves an idea like this right or wrong. The only reason you feel harming another creature is wrong is due to hundreds of years of religion. (not knocking religion) So it’s not 100% wrong, if it was 100% wrong this conversation wouldn’t be happening.
I work on the Chesapeake Bay and routinely pull up fish take a knife and split them end to end to find out what they are eating and their general health among other things. I bet some people would argue that’s wrong, but this practice has directly impacted our leverage to pass laws protecting the bay which has directly influenced the recovery of the bay (yes it is actually recovering). So is it still wrong? Only a little wrong? Three Quarters Wrong? How do we measure wrong?

I have no misconception about this hobby, I do not care about the well being of my fish. If someone put an ugly fish in my tank, I’d take it out and pitch it, if no one else in my club wanted it and a LFS wouldn’t take it. I keep my fish healthy and continue to look after their well being because I enjoy watching my fish and I enjoy the beauty it provides for my home.
Anyone who thinks otherwise should really consider this; if you honestly think your fish has a better life in your tank than it would in the wild, and since we seem to enjoy placing our values on them, how would you like living in a glass box? Say someone picked you up while you were out shopping and stuck you in a box and forced you to live your life for their amusement? I think there was actually a case of this in California with a little girl? I bet you thought to yourself, HOW COULD ANYONE DO THAT TO SOMEONE?!
But again that’s placing human values on a non human organism, and it’s a little silly isn’t it?