Why ball valves on drain line and/or return line?

Discussion in 'General Reef Topics' started by =Jwin=, Nov 21, 2013.

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  1. =Jwin=

    =Jwin= Tassled File Fish

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    We are upgrading my mom's 46 gallon to a 90, and right now I'm trying to sketch out what I want in plumbing and a sump. We want the basics of just a drain line from the drilled tank (corner overflow) going down into the sump, with a T and a line (with ball valve) going to the fuge section of the sump. That ball valve I understand, as it will throttle back the flow for the fuge to where it's nice and slow, and then the fuge will just overflow into the rest of the sump. We will then have one line return the water to the display tank.

    HOWEVER, a ton of build threads seem to have ball valves everywhere. One on the drain line (not leading to fuge), AND one on the return line. My question is, why? Why would you try to throttle back the drain line if it's gravity fed? I feel like a ball valve (and actually using it) would just put an unnecessary limit on what GPH that drain can handle. Is the ball valve there to "shut off" the water? Why would you need to do that? Turn the pump on, it overflows and drains via gravity. Turn the pump off, and eventually the display tank won't be able to overflow any more.

    Can someone enlighten me?

    And again with the return line. Why in the blue velvet would you want to throttle that back OR close it off completely? If you don't want water going up the return line, turn the pump off. If you do, turn the pump on. I feel like it should be that simple. Throttling the pump back with a ball valve will just lower your GPH and burn out your pump. Just buy a smaller pump if you want lower GPH.

    I feel like there is some huge topic that I am missing here. Why the ball valves? Do you actually do anything with them, or are they more just optional but are there for control?

    Thanks!

    And no, I'm not hating on your ball valves, I just have no idea why they need to exist.
     
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  3. Nuebie

    Nuebie Peppermint Shrimp

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    On the return people like slowing the flow through their sump to allow more contact time with their skimmers. Also if they have a manifold you can divert your flow to other items like reactors. On your drain lines I'd never put a valve between your overflow and drain. I can see one to control your fuge drain but make sure the main drain has no possible way of clogging. If you put a valve on it you could be asking for a flood. All it would take is a little bit of algae or a snail to get caught at that valve and your flooding your room
     
  4. barbianj

    barbianj Hammer Head Shark

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    On an external pump, you need a valve to change the pump out, since it sits below the water line. Also, I have multiple tanks on each pump, so it's necessary to control the flow to each tank.
     
  5. Av8Bluewater

    Av8Bluewater Giant Squid

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    A valve going into the fuge .. like you said to control a slower flow through the refugium section.

    Don't need a valve from the over flow. I have one because my type of drain is a different type of system called the "bean animal" It's a system that is silent and works by controlling the flow coming back from the tank. I have 2 extra drains for back ups incase one gets clogged.

    Having a valve on the return is common. I don't have one on this tank but my last one it would have been too much flow going up. I had to balance flow from that pump to other things like my skimmer and reactors and such. Talked to the people that make the pumps ( Reeflo) They are designed to have flow restricted as long as you don't put the restriction too close to the pump outlet. I have a DC pump now that I can control the outflow rate.
     
  6. =Jwin=

    =Jwin= Tassled File Fish

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    I really am thinking that our tank build will require only one ball valve, and that's to control the fuge flow. I like to keep things simple, and would like the drain line to be valve free to be able to handle any amount of flow possible (within reason), and the fewer valves/joints it has, the better. So far we're looking at 2 45 degree elbows and a T joint (for the fuge) at minimum, and I'd like to keep it at that. Our sump flow and return GPH will just be regulated by the pump. We're shooting for the basic 10+ tank turnover, so a 90 gallon tank would require 900 GPH at the return outlet, meaning a pump sending out more than that to account for height.

    Any more flow needed will come from powerheads. Keeping it simple :D
     
  7. =Jwin=

    =Jwin= Tassled File Fish

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    Just what I needed! Maybe we will stick a ball valve on the return, depending on how our setup is and what pump we plan on using. Thanks for the info!
     
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  9. sailorguy

    sailorguy Torch Coral

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    It's also not a good idea to rely on a check valve or a hole drilled in the return nozzle as a siphon break.Both of these methods can and will fail,the only question is when.It would be wiser to position the return nozzle close enough to the surface that it will be sucking air before your sump can overflow.
     
  10. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

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    You will want a ball valve on the return pump line to fine tune the pump. The pump is what regulates the overflow rate so no valves on the overflow since it will balance itself with the return.

    I feed my refugium with a 1" x 1/2" tee in the overflow, there is no restriction in the main overflow but I do have a 1/2" ball valve in the side outlet feeding the refugium. I would never restrict the overflow itself using a normal standpipe such as a Stockman or Durso.

    10x the dislay volume is a little high for a return pump, its usually more like 5x and the rest is made up with powerheads which are much more energy efficient. You don't mention the size of the sump but 10x the display volume, 900 GPH in your case, would be a tremendous velocity in a 20 or 30G sump leading to microbubble issues even with baffles. You don't want high velocity in the sump, one reason is the skimmer may not have time to process water effectively.
     
  11. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

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    Read the sump tutorial at Melevsreef.com - Welcome! for a good explaination. My only reservation is Marc recommends retruning water to the sump with a tee and valve on the return which is very very outdated and not energy efficient plus leads to noise. He should advise the valve in the return line instead which actually makes many pumps more efficient and reduces power consumption and heat gain.
     
  12. Av8Bluewater

    Av8Bluewater Giant Squid

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    Just a suggestion. Ball valves are cheaper but a gate valve is much easier to use for controlling flow. In general a ball valve is for on/off and gate valves for controlling flow. You can certainly use either or but the gates are really nice. ( more precise)