the official ECOBAK thread...

Discussion in 'Warner Marine' started by Jon Warner, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Last May we introduced our revolutionary ecoBAK ULNS Pellets to the Marine and Reef Aquarium hobby.

    ecoBAK is a unique and novel biodegradable polymer that serves as both a food and substrate for specific strains of bacteria that remove Phosphate and Nitrogenous compounds from aquarium water. The simple version of how it works? Basically the ecoBAK is a unique organic Carbon food source that just happens to be the preferred food source for several strains of bacteria that facilitate the removal of Phosphates and Nitrates. As the bacteria consumes the biodegradable polymer, it also simultaneously consumes Phosphate and Nitrate.

    What's this mean for your tank?

    You will now have water quality that previously could ONLY be obtained by frequent water changes, giant protein skimmers and expensive Zeolite systems.

    You will have less problems with nuisance algae, your corals will grow better and look better (better colors) and your fish will be healthier. You will be able to feed your system more food as you no longer have to worry about raising your Phosphate and Nitrate levels.

    How do you do it? Place the ecoBAK in a suitable fluidized reactor or in many instances a media bag. Run approximately 100gph of flow thru each liter of media. Make sure you run a protein skimmer and make sure it's working well. If possible, run the output of the reactor into the same sump area as the intake pump for the skimmer.

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  3. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting Jon, thank you for this

    question if you dont mind

    Carbon in general is not discriminate about they types/species of bacteria it encourages
    thus in a tank with Cyno potential, carbon dosing can often lead to outbreaks of cynobacteria

    during your research, did you find this to be the case with Ecobak or is Ecobak less likely to create a cyno bloom than other forms of carbon dosing, given the same ambient tank conditions?


    Steve
  4. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    So aren't there LOTS of bio-pellets out there?

    ecoBAK is patent pending

    ecoBAK is the only "unique" product in the crowd of repackaged clone pellets. We started our research from a blank slate and ended up using a different polymer than the other guys. Our product boasts several proprietary features from the polymer itself to the physical structure of the pellet.

    Read the reviews... ecoBAK just plain WORKS BETTER.
  5. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    there are indeed Jon and if my question has offended you in any way, then I sincerely apologise for that

    I will read the reviews as you suggest
    I am genuinely interested in this subject
    and as such wanted to know from someone directly involved in the production of 1 form of carbon dosing
    exactly what the benefits of it, where when compared to other types of carbon dosing forms and in fact other makes of similar types

    hope that clarifies my question and reason for asking it?

    Steve
  6. jkat21

    jkat21 Bangghai Cardinal

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    I have a question for you..I have been running the ecobak for 6 months now and have never had to refill or add to....in fact there are the same amount I put in when I started..TIA
  7. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Hi Steve,

    Actually I don't belive there is a connection between Cyanobacteria and ecoBAK.

    Here's my logic. The number of people who report Cyanobacteria after starting ecoBAK are a small minority. We would see a more consistent number of reports if it were truly a cause. I personally believe that Cyanobacteria is a symptom of a bacterial imbalance in a system. Many hobbyists control Cyanobacteria completely with a probiotic system such as Prodibio or ML Special Blend.

    In addition, the concept of ecoBAK serving as a soluble organic Carbon source for organisms system-wide is incorrect. EcoBAK is insoluble and can only be consumed by bacteria on it's surface. Ecobak ADDS NOTHING to the water. It is not like Carbon dosing. Carbon dosing adds a soluble Carbon source system-wide whereas ecoBAK is isolated in a reactor/'media bag. This is a prime benefit of ecoBAK over Vodka, Sugar, vinegar...

    Also the pore structure of ecoBAK is reinforced with a high-tech inert ceramic material to retain the integrity of the pore surface. ecoBAK does NOT suffer from the problem of particles of the polymer shedding off of the media and ending up in the aquarium...
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  9. sostoudt

    sostoudt Giant Squid

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    although this wasn't addressed to me, I will answer it.

    Biopellets generally don't break down and enter the water column like vodka. The bacteria lives on the pellets and it shouldn't really create patches of slimes in your tank.

    I won't say that they can't create slime algaes however. I have noticed when I over feed(I'm a pretty heavy feeder naturally) that any increased algae growth I get is usually of a slime type(dinoflagelates and cyano). Whether this is a direct result of the pellets I'm not sure, I will say my tank seems void of all other types of algae growth.


    When new biopellets can create a bacterial bloom for a while.
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  10. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    The decomposition of the ecoBAK depends on many factors but the greatest factor is the bio-load of the system. Relatively new or clean systems will use very little ecoBAK. My personal frag system at the office has used less than 10% by volume of ecoBAK in 9 months because it's low bio-load and already had low nutrients. Many people will see more than 1 year of use.
  11. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That makes a lot of sense to me Jon, thank you
    if its kept in the reactor and the reactor feed to the skimmer
    I can certainly see why this product would be much less likely to cause issues , than products dosed directly into the water column

    would you agree that the same principle would apply when talking about other potential issues such as peach fuzz, bacterial growth which some VSV users experience?

    Steve
  12. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    I don't think users will see the peach-fuzz and mystery slime we see in soluble C dosing. When ecoBAK is new and system has a high nutrient load what happens is that the surface of the pellet will become covered with a thick layer of bacteria which may be stripped off the pellets surface and end up in the main system. This accounts for the temporary cloudiness we see in new applications... it's the water-borne bacteria, not the C source itself.
  13. jkat21

    jkat21 Bangghai Cardinal

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    Thanks jon just wanted to know if that was norm....my bio load is not real high but I have visable signs of nusance algae(ro/di unit crashed for a bit)...they are deff working cause I have seen some colors and growth getting better..also noticed my cheato died off after 1-2 months of use.
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  15. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    and thanks for asking questions, guys... a thread can't continue without posts :D
  16. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you sotoudt - quality information.


    Thanks again Jon
    Do you think your pellets would be OK in a HOB skimmer ( the ones that have the spare section for running carbon etc)
    would that create enough water movement for them?

    I am considering people with HOB run tanks, who might not want another object hanging off back of tank


    Steve
  17. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Also... we find about 8/10 ecoBAK users are discontinuing their PO4 removal media completely (GFO).

    We recommend that tanks already running GFO continue to use the GFO for the first 4 weeks and then attempt to remove and monitor PO4 levels.
  18. sostoudt

    sostoudt Giant Squid

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    Is there a reason for the cylindrical shape instead of spherical?
  19. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    Hi Steve,

    Your welcome! I've heard of many different methods hobbyists are using to run ecoBAK. I've heard of throwing a media bag in a corner overflow, in a micron sock and yes even in a HOB chamber. All methods may not have the same efficiency but all should be beneficial.
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  21. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    great question! It's a limitation of the equipment. The shiny little beads you see out there are formed by a method where basically wax-like molten polymer drops into a water bath onto a spinning plate. This creates a very smooth surface and a round-ish shape. But we don't like the lack of surface porosity this makes. Air-extrusion makes for a better pore structure and surface for beneficial bacteria.
  22. steve wright

    steve wright Super Moderator Staff Member

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    excellent news

    I can now suggest these pellets to people looking for a carbon dose form, on tanks with no sump and using a HOB skimmer


    Steve
  23. Jon Warner

    Jon Warner 3reef Sponsor

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    thanks Steve, I know several people who run exactly that.
  24. Seano Hermano

    Seano Hermano Giant Squid

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    This is a good thread. I am going along for the ride.

    I listened to what you suggested earlier, Steve. I like the sound of ecoBAK.