Sump Plumbing Questions

Discussion in 'Filters, Pumps, etc..' started by omgiv, Oct 27, 2009.

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  1. omgiv

    omgiv Coral Banded Shrimp

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    I am trying to make my list out as to what I am going to need when I plump my new sump and have lots of questions. Right now, I have clear flexible tubing from my mag 7 back to the tank and ribbed flexible tubing from my drain to the sump. My mag drive has a 1/2" outlet but I think that my return bulkhead is 3/4". Is it best to get a 1/2" to 3/4" coupling and run 3/4" back to the tank? My drain is a 1" so I plan to run that to the sump.

    Are there any golden rules that I need to follow? I am sure that avoiding as many bends is a good idea but didn't know if there are others.

    I know that I need to place a valve on the drain when it splits to the refugium to control the flow. I would also like to place one on my return line. Are gate valves that much better that ball valves? It seems that they are a good bit more, but if they are worth it...they are worth it. Do you think that I need check valves on anything?

    I was also wondering how you put everything together. Did you use glue or just slip parts together? What is the best method of fitting the pipes to the bulkheads? My bulkheads are threaded on the outside but I don't think that I have room to install a nut. Will the pipes slip into the bulkhead and stay put without one? Also, any tips on preventing leaks?

    If there is anything that I might be missing please let me know. I am not a good plumber at all and just want to get my ducks in a row before I do anything. Sorry for the many random questions :) Thanks in advance!!!!

    Regards,
    Ivy
     
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  3. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

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    Most pumps perform better if you upsize the plumbing a size or two. Increase from 1/2" to 3/4" as close to the pump as possible for the least amount of head pressure or resistance to flow.

    A valve in the return line is a good idea so you can fine tune the return flow to match your overflow rate and sump. For what we do ball valves are more than adequate, we are not controlling flows down to the fluid ounce per hour, ball park adjustements are close enough. Never use check valves in a reef system, they fail and usually at the worst possible time like when no one is home. Design your return so you keep it just slightly below the surface so in a power outage only a very slight, easily calculated amount of water backsiphons before the return is exposed to air and the siphon breaks. Never rely on drilled holes or check valves, they both require maintenance and can be easily defeated.

    I always use screwed fittings when possible so things can be disassembled for cleaning or reconfiguring, that includes thread by thread bulkheads. The threads on the outside of the bulkhead are not pipe threads so all pipe installs on the interior threads or slip, I hate slip myself as they do not seal well in a submersed situation without gluing, the slightest movement and they leak. Threaded fittings can be sealed with a simple swipe of a thread sealant teflon stick or a few wraps of tape. I prefer the stick type sealants and they can be found at ACe, Lowes and HD among others. It nevers hardens and stays pliavble for years and years so it stays sealed. LaCo makes one as does Permatex and LocTite I believe. Its called a PVC thread lubricant stick.
     
  4. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    AZ summed it up very nicely. Good stuff.

    http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/my-herbie-overflow-write-up-pics-beware-60239.html

    That is write up I did for my Herbie overflow. The write up is unimportant for you, but it does have pics of my piping that are usefull to you. I used a simple connection you can get at any Lowes or HD. I sliped it over my threaded bulkhead. And yes it did leak. I sealed it up with aquarium silicone over the threads and that solved that.
     
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  5. omgiv

    omgiv Coral Banded Shrimp

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    Thanks for the replies guys. The bulkheads on my tank are definitely slip. I appreciate the pictures Powerman of how you avoided that problem. If anyone else has any ideas, I am all ears. For the pipes and fittings that were slip, did you use regular PVC cement? If so, is it tank safe? Thanks!!!!
     
  6. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

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    PVC glue is reef safe once it cures. Plan out your fittings and use unions and ball valves in areas where you may want to disassemle things for cleaning and maintenance. Also try to avoid rigid PVC piping close to pumps, always use a short piece of flex tubing to break up vibration and sound transmission.
     
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  7. omgiv

    omgiv Coral Banded Shrimp

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    Thanks for all of the great information!!! If you don't mind a couple of additional questions.... If the unions and ball valves are glued, how would you get at them for maintenance. If you have screwed unions and ball valves, how do they attach to the PVC pipe. Do they make threded pipe? Pardon my ignorance :). Thanks!!!

    Ivy
     
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  9. AZDesertRat

    AZDesertRat Giant Squid

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    Unions come apart with male and female sides. You can get both unions and valves in slip/glue or threaded varieties, I prefer the threaded again since they can be disassembled and reused or replaced easily.
    You can get threaded pipe and pipe nipples in Schedule 80 thickness but for Sch 40 or class 125 like we normally see you use male or female adapters which are thread x slip and glue to the pipe.

    This site:
    Spears Manufacturing, PVC & CPVC Plastic Pipe Fittings & Valves
    has the best information when it comes to PVC pipe and fittings and how to assemble them correctly. Most everything in their catalog can be found at HD or Lowes or a plumbing/irrigation/sprinkler supply store.

    These pictures may give you some idea of how PVC and clear tubing can be mixed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are under my tank leading to the sump. the larger 1" line is the overflow and the 3/4" line is the return pump. The 1" tees off to the side to feed my refugium. The 1" and 3/4" valves are threaded, you see Sch 80 gray threaded pipe nipples above the valves then the 3/4" goes into a barbed adapter for the hose and the 1" goes into a glued male adapter, glued tee and a glued slip x threaded coupling which has anothe rbarbed adapter screwed into it with 1" hose on it. The line leading to the refugium is 1/2" PVC and is just slip fit together since it has no pressure on it.
    I also use a mixture of PVC and clear tubing for my closed loop system which is drilled into the back wall of my tank using bulkheads.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  10. Powerman

    Powerman Giant Squid

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    Pipe is pipe. Then you buy slip or threaded fittings. So you glue a slip fitting with a treaded end, then thread unions or valves in place. Go to any hardware store and it is all right there. It will make sense.
     
  11. omgiv

    omgiv Coral Banded Shrimp

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    Thanks again for the information guys. I truly appreciate the help.
     
  12. omgiv

    omgiv Coral Banded Shrimp

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    One last question....I promise :)

    I am thinking that it might just be easier to keep the vinyl tubing for the return. I measured the OD of my tubing and I think that it is 7/8". I looked online and it looks like the ID is 5/8". I have it running from my 1/2" mag drive 7 to my 3/4" bulkhead (I say 3/4" because that is what comes with the mega flow kit). Would it be better to put two 1/2" hose barbs on the vinyl tubing and attach a 1/2" valve or do it another way. I was looking last night and I just couldn't figure out a way to attach the vinyl tubing I have to something that is 3/4". I was looking for a barb that was 1/2" X 3/4" but could n't find one. I see parts for same to same, but not something different. Any suggestions? Thanks again!!!

    Ivy