still just dont get skimmers :/

Discussion in 'Protein Skimmers' started by HappyGillmore, Dec 6, 2009.

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  1. HappyGillmore

    HappyGillmore Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    I guess I gotta re think my whole filter design. Theres something about surface tension and pressure that im just not understanding. Its driving me a little nuts actually. What I have is a 55 gallon sump with two holes drilled out on one of the sides. One for skimmer input and one for skimmer output. So its an external Downdraft SKimmer plumbed into the side of my sump. A week ago this thing was blasting dark colored skimmate out of the neck. Seemed to be working perfect. But for the last two days somethings definetely WRONG! I thought at first it was just because I had skimmed out almost all the organics but I dont buy that anymore. There should be way more bubbles in the reaction chamber. Ive been adding food of course so theres organics right there. What in the hell is the skimmer's problem??

    I decided to do some MORE research on these skimmers. This time I came across the same concept I never quite got in the first place. The surface tension thing. Now usually Ill feed the tank or put my hands in there and the skimmer will temporarily crap out until some kinda pressure builds or something. The oils on my skin or the food messes it up for a while and it bouces back. But its not happening now and I know its because of this tension bs.

    Heres a couple things that might be causing it.

    For some reason my overflow isnt pulling water out like it did last week. As a result, my return pumps are pushing water in faster than my overflow can carry it down. To make up for this I put some pretty small tubing in the tank near the overflow to help feed water down to my drip plate. Even still the darm water level hovers above the inside rim of the overflow. So basically its not skimming the surface. I dont know why the overflow is doing this, could coraline algae have grown so fast inside the overflow in a week that its slowing down the flow to the sump? Anyway Im thikning this inability to skim the surface is causing inefficient protien skimming. That sound right?

    Also, like i said I have the overflow feeding water down to a drip plate where the water flows over a couple prefilters, some carbon and media bags and then down through the trickle filter. Once it makes its way through these layers it comes to rest in the sump. The wetdry sits right above the inlets and outlets for the skimmer. In theory it sounded like a good idea, prefilter the water so the bio balls in my downdraft tube stay clean, removing particles before they get sucked in. It also provides a site for gas exchange as well as the aerobic environemnt it provides for bacteria. But I came across a page that says "NEVER pre-filter water fed to a skimmer. All water from surface extraction to the reactor chamber should be raw, concentrated and undisturbed. Any filter pads, foam blocks or other obstructions along the way will seriously impede skimmate production!"

    I cant say I understand it but im willing to do whatever it takes to get my skimmer working right. If I have to make a trickle filter elsewhere downstream in the sump I will. Anyone have any thoughts on this headache of mine? An absolute perfect balance was observed over the past comple days but now i can see that the ineffective skimming is starting to cause problems.

    PS heres the site I was reading that made me think Im doing something wrong with my filtration design. Its the end part that lists reasons and summarizes Skimmers. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/proskimrart2.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
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  3. CompulsiveAqua

    CompulsiveAqua Astrea Snail

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    It took my ASMG-4xx 3 months before it started working effectively...I have been in the hobby bout 3 years and I constantly have to remind myself to take it slow. The overflow could be a number of things:
    1.Could be alage growth, but I doubt it it's too new
    2.If the overflow box is tilted one way or the other it will create bubbles and those will go up the U-tube, making an air pocket causing slower flow
    3. If you have high flow..my tank has powerheads at a turn over of 6000gph it can cause the water level to run high.
    Send pics...I don't think I've ever seen a skimmer you are talking about.
    What size is your tank? does the overflow have two outlets to your sump or one?
     
  4. HappyGillmore

    HappyGillmore Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Yea its not algae growth, im mean there actually is a good deal of coralline that has grown in the past few days but not enough to make a difference i dont think. I just replaced the check valve so thats not it. I checked the tilt situation and it was tilted but I fixed that.. still no change in flow. I do have a good amount of flow in there, it causes the surface to ripple a bit. Ill send pics, its a oversized skimmer. A 5 foot downdraft skimmer for a 75 gallon + 55 gallon system. Things like this reall y make you doubt your invovlement with the hobby. Just when you think everything is perfect some inexplicable bs like this happens. The overflow doesnt bother me as much as the skimmer. But maybe the two are related in some way. It just doesnt make sense and im tired of tearing this tank apart looking for causes of things. Tomorrow I suppose Ill remove the pump, see if theres anything wrong with it cuz basic observations show that theres just not enough air getting in the reaction chamber. A week ago it was milk-white with a violent mix of air.

    On the bright side, I do think, that when I get this problem figured out it will be smooth sailing with only my modest lighting limiting growth. If anyone has any ideas I really appreciate hearing them :)
     
  5. HappyGillmore

    HappyGillmore Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Now that i think about it maybe this is all caused by a one inch piece of reed-like grass that got sucked into the skimmer. I was cooking about 60 lbs of liverock with seawater i collected from the Long Island Sound. There was some dead sea grass in the water that looked more like a brown straw. I saw a piece of it laying on top of the bio balls in the downdraft tube but couldnt pluck it out with the chopsticks I had. Maybe its somethin simple like that?

    BTW i feel the need to apologize for all this frantic questioning. Its just when u get so close to what youve been striving for after 11 months, you get frustrated when stuff like this happens. I know all i need is the right person to come across this thread and ill have this final piece to the puzzle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  6. crazy reef love

    crazy reef love Skunk Shrimp

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    No need to apologize happy gillmore. We all signed up to this site to ask questions and answer questions and share our knowledge. The air diffusers must be periodically cleaned or replaced because the pores clog, reducing air flow. That could be the problem with the skimmer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  7. dreiling

    dreiling Fire Shrimp

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    does your skimmer still make as many bubbles and has the water level dropped.
     
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  9. dreiling

    dreiling Fire Shrimp

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    Check your salinity, if it is low your skimmer will not work as well. Check the injector I think reef devil uses a single injection port making clogging easy. I would use a prefilter with any injection skimmer/ I have an aqua c ev injeciton, otherewise you will spend most of your time cleaning your skimmer instead of your skimmer cleaning your water. Also make sure your pump is fine, which im sure it is, and maybe, your skimmer really does have very little left to skim you have a freakin huge skimmer for a 75 gallon.
    good luck and I hope you get that over flow working.
     
  10. HappyGillmore

    HappyGillmore Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    K ive decided to chill out a bit and have faith in the change i just made. I basically shut off one of my two supply pumps so that my underacheiving overflow can handle the supply. Now the surface is being skimmed. I may starting to grasp this surface tension thing after all. It seems particles get charged when they interact with the surface or something. Maybe that statement is an indication of little i know about it lol but at least i know the surface is a very important ingredient in efficient protien skimming. So whatever ionic bs that needs to happen please do in the next couple hours so i can get these organics out! Perfection 3 days ago, now algae starting to spike.
     
  11. CompulsiveAqua

    CompulsiveAqua Astrea Snail

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    On the bright side, I do think, that when I get this problem figured out it will be smooth sailing with only my modest lighting limiting growth. If anyone has any ideas I really appreciate hearing them :)[/QUOTE]


    It is rarely smooth sailing, but thats the fun of it all. Especially if you are do it yourselfer like myself. My problem currently is Cyano is growing from nothing!!!! NO3 0 PHOS O RODI 4 ATS...ahhhhhhhhhhh


    Good luck.
     
  12. HappyGillmore

    HappyGillmore Spanish Shawl Nudibranch

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    Yes this is a neverending pursuit but i do think im very close. The surface skim didnt really change the skimmer problem. Going to have to take the plumbing apart now to see if something got jammed in there. The pump doesnt seem to be doing what it used to. Going to try to talk to ETS as i know they make downdraft skimmers. Ill tell them I have one of their 600 models and see if someone can help me figure this out.