Sand's affect on ph?

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by Grant, Sep 28, 2009.

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  1. Dingo

    Dingo Giant Squid

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    i got it. since Ca can replace the H+ in the H2CO3 molecule, an increase in calcium will cause the dKh to have a more profound effect on the buffering compacity. Essentially you are "raising" it as you would with hydrogens, except the Ca has more electrons to donate and is less electronegative so it has a higher buffering effect, while you are still getting the "same reading" for dKh!

    i propose raising your Ca levels... anyone object to this?
     
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  3. bioreefdude

    bioreefdude Fu Manchu Lion Fish

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  4. lunatik_69

    lunatik_69 Giant Squid

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    Yes, raising his Cal will only lower his Alk, unless his Mag is at 1500ppm or higher. Remember that Cal and Alk are at the ends of a "see-saw". When one element raises, the other will go lower and visa-versa. Theres something wrong with his(Grant) equation. Did Grant mention if he had a refugium?
    His tank is not covered, His No3 is low, his paras look fine, he did the inside/outside test, he did a O2 test and his testing kits are not expired.
    I still think that he has too much Co2 and not enough O2 in his system. I also think that Grant didnt do the inside/outside test correctly. 9 out of 10 ppl who do that test always get different results and the outside is always higher.


    Luna
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Feather Duster

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    Wow! That was impressive.

    To answer a few questions brought up...
    - I don't have a refugium
    - I don't have algae in my sump (no room at all)
    - My small condo has been aerated with an open door all last night and today (beautiful weather :) ) and still have the same readings (ph 7.7)
    - My test kit for ph is Saliferts. The colors never seem to match perfectly, but it is definitely not dark enough to be 8.0.
    - My test kit for alkalinity is Tetra. It labels the results as KH and not dKH. I don't know the difference, but my readings are a stable 9-10 (within the kit suggested range) with a weekly dose of Seachem Reef Builder.


    I can raise the Cal or KH if that is what is suggested?
     
  6. lunatik_69

    lunatik_69 Giant Squid

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    I would try to some how incorporate a refugium, even if its an "inside" the DT type. Theres a piece of the puzzle that is not being said, I havent figured out what it is yet, but we will figure it out.


    Luna
     
  7. Dingo

    Dingo Giant Squid

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    If you raise mag to 1500 then Calcium can be held at higher levels... Might help but the algae in sump definatly is easier
     
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  9. Grant

    Grant Feather Duster

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    I'll look into the supplemental refugium. It will definitely be a difficult fit though. I would plan a refugium in future endeavors (always learning), but for now I'm limited to what I have, and space is a premium. What exactly does chaeto do? I don't know much about "inside DT refugiums", but I'll look into it. Or anything else? Is raising my mag and cal the consensus here? that I can do. btw, I'm pretty sure a ph monitor is in my future.
     
  10. lunatik_69

    lunatik_69 Giant Squid

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    IMO, raising your Mag,Cal and Alk is not going to do anything for you, as far as ph goes. Did you try the air pump with air stones in your system?



    Luna
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Feather Duster

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    I'm working on adding an airstone to my sump. I thought I had a decent air pump from many days ago, but it's a loud p.o.s. I did the test you suggested with a battery backup pump I have, but that won't work for full time usage.

    Also, I changed my crushed coral to sand. It probably won't help my ph probs, but I like it better and it seems like others prefer sand for good reasons. So I'll monitor it for the next few weeks and get that airstone pumping. Thank you all for your help.
     
  12. SaltyB

    SaltyB Plankton

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    This has been a very interesting read.

    I have a 6 month old 90 Gallon. 4" of sand with 20lbs of crushed coral on top. My Ph hovers around 7.9, sometimes down to 7.8 and up to 8.1. I have a Oakton Ph meter (I have properly calibrated it) with a new electrode. A manual pH test results in 8.0, I feel that the Oakton meter is a more accurate test.


    I've tried the air stone, but the salt creep was a PITA. No effect on pH with the airstone (but the bubbles weren't as fine as they could of been)

    I've tested all my Ca, Mg dKH, and hardness, all within the ranges that I've seen as acceptable.

    A few questions:

    1st) I have a ASM G-3 skimmer. Doesn't a skimmer help oxygenate the water? Or does it maybe only help a little bit compared to a airstone.

    2nd) Isn't live rock the same compound as crushed coral. IE, CC shouldn't be affecting my pH, especially because my pH isn't below 7.6

    3rd) Isn't sand just finely crushed coral?


    Should I even be worried about a 7.9 pH?


    I have a fuge but my cheto died due to GHA (New Phosphate reactor killed all the GHA). Now that all my GHA has been gone for about 2 weeks, i'm going to get some new Cheto... I'm hoping that will help with CO2 \ O2.