Return pump for DT water movement?

Good question. I'd like to know, as well.

 

Turbulent Flow

That is a good question and the short answer is what it takes to create turbulence in my DT. In my case building a 300 gallon tank that creates turbulence it requires alot of flow in every direction which includes coming from the top down also.
In fluid dynamics, turbulence or turbulent flow is a flow regime characterized by chaoic and stochnstic property changes. Say What/
In a nut shell turulence is rapid mixing in our case it's within an aquarium.
I will used 10 inlets and 2 can't say this part yet to create T in my DT and also through sump.
8,400gph +- friction(another thread later) on cloose loop part and 4,200gph exchange-turn over x 12 for my system. My goal is to make as much chaotic flow as i can because T is created perpendicular to the reef structure so that plane is what i want across my tank. Using the reef structure to create different flows required by different corals.

This is high flow to me

Turbulent flow is always chaotic but not all chaotic flows are turbulent.
A river flowing only one way is not turbulent only when it crosses another river is turbulence born. Remember the mixing thing!

 

Have you ever looked into mass flow... gyre tanks? Turbulence isn't what it is all cracked up to be. You will have turbulence when any flow interacts with a structure. Lots of study has been done to look into what is needed by corals, and reefs are not as turbulent and chaotic as most think. Nor is it as simple as saying flow comes from top down... it comes from bottom up as deep ocean currents hit the land mass and rise. They have a lot of mass flow from currents moving through them. To a coral it's just sitting in a river so to speak. Comapring a glass box to a ocean and land mass with wind, waves, and tides is not that practical.

I'm not trying to argue that turbulence is bad or good, in the end all movement will disipate through friction and turbulence. Nobody denies the need for a lot of water turnover in out tanks and systems. You have a closed loop providing a 28x turnover rate. Not that crazy. You have tank turn over rate of 14x through your sump. You would be one of the very few using that practice. I would like to know what benefits that gives you over just providing what your filter or equipment needs.

Obviously there are many ways to skin a cat. Obviously you can attach a big honkin pump to your system and move 40x your tank through your sump. No one here said you couldn't. The OP asked what are the cons for doing so and a couple of us provided that. What I took exception to is that you basically came in and said we don't know what we are talking about. Obviously, both ways work. The cons of high flow through the sump and high power use and heat of big pumps and open systems fighting gravity have been stated. I have yet to hear of all the benefits that gives a system and why we would want to do it that way.

Power for this hobby is just the cost of doing buisness. Yes it takes power to run a life support system and move water. To some using less is a concern, to others it's not. Does not mean that it is not valid, or that we don't know what we are talking about.

 

"Turbulent flow is always chaotic but not all chaotic flows are turbulent.
A river flowing only one way is not turbulent only when it crosses another river is turbulence born. Remember the mixing thing!"

Interesting that you constantly refer to the tanks you've had in the past, to the natural world outside. Yet, you are also trying to compare apples to apples in a "biodome" when you use an artificial "pump" to mimic oceanic current flow. Personally, I don't know of any oceanic streams (I.E. Gulf Stream) that cross each other in the manor of which you speak. Most just go in circles. You've made an excellent example of turbulence, ( I couldn't have described it better myself) But most Tidal waves consist of Ebbs and Flows. Yes, the top of the water is constantly in motion, but, I can say that the majority of our reefs are not floating at the surface, and the water around them is either moving in one direction or the other (I.E. Tidal action)

I respect that you are such an outspoken person, and you definitely enjoy creating some drama (I.E. 'I can see the crowd forming now') But dude, you really need to slow your roll with the "old VS new" thing. We're all in it for the same purpose......to make these ugly things that somebody gone done and plucked out of the dang sea water live in these glass castles we all call fishy tanks. (some of us call "em reef tanks, which is why we like to be on this here forum called """3REEF""") In my line of work, the places in which you speak of (3 Rivers) mostly contain predator fish, because it's easy to catch crap when it's been tossed around from turbulence and make easy prey. When you are trying to create a "Reef Environment "SLOW FLOW TENDS TO SIMPLY WORK BETTER" But hey, what do I know, I've only been doing this for six months, and you obviously are far more experienced than I, I say so by the way you can cut and paste those "Fluid Dynamics Criteria" in which you so promptly displayed.But you should first think about making friends around here before you press the wrass hole button preemptively. Then, most of would be able to have some respect for you as a teacher, rather than some wr******* that dove into the conversation uninvited. Once again, that's just My opinion.

 

Gone Fishing

My bad didn't know we were all to have the same view? Out of respect for 3reef and Seano Hermano and all the members who posted on this thread i will end my input.

 

Here's my 2 cents First turbulance in the ocean comes from the top down not from the side. This is caused by wind, land shape, water moving toward shore and water moving away from shore. Second before all the fancy powerheads were around return pumps is how we moved water in both DT and filters. No way does a powerhead move the same water as a pump so the makers (powerheads) came up with a new term for gph called flux flow which is a real word for liquid flow but not how it's being used here in our hobby. Third there is no to little head pressure on pumps with closed loop since lines are always full of water and pump has tank water pressure feeding it. Forth is flow through filter, sump, and refugium's why would you think we need to turn over DT 50 times an hour and think that flow needs to be slow through sump, and refugiums this is not true and something hobbiest have made up with no proof(i can see the mob forming now). You want proof of high flow read Floyds part 1 Algae Scrubber(great reading by the way) or try it yourself, algae grows from light and what's in the water along with flow. I do agree on the power thing and hope someday soon someone will build a small solar panel able to supply our reef tanks.
Now with above writings High Flow has always worked for me with 55 gallon tanks up to 750 gallon tanks using the power of pumps and many inlets along with elevated rock work and husbandry. So you slow flow guys don't get upset if it works for you that's great and keep doing it!

My bad, I thought you were trying to shove your "2 Cents" down my damn throat, please correct me if I was wrong.

 

You might not be aware... but you are crossing a line.

He respectfully bowed out when there was no need to. You might want to consider the same.

 

... I tried.

 

Wow.

 

You just contradicted yourself.