Product Questions?

I have been using your products for a few years off and on and I think I have had decent results using them. I did however just notice on your site that I should use Waste Away, Eco Balance and First Defense at the same time. This isn't on the bottles anywhere so I didn't know not to it. I used all three at one time and now I have what looks like RTN on most my montipora and some of my acro's. Not saying it was you products that did this but something happened and quickly. I had all of my water parameters tested professionally (I send it in for testing every other month) a few weeks ago and everything was stable in the tank. I test at home weekly and haven't seen anything change. No new deaths Cal/Alk/Mag all stable no algae pos or nit problems.

So my question is did mixing these products do something nasty to the bacteria in the tank? What protocol should I use to fix it? How should I use your Eco Balance and Waste Away?

 

were you having issues with your tank that led you to use these products in the first place?

 

hello

The site says NOT to use all three products at once. You forget to write 'not' in you post.

The reasons not to use them together are:

Waste-Away and Eco-Balance are both live bacteria products and by adding both at the same time you run the risk of over-dosing the system with bacteria.

First Defense includes vitamins which can stimulate bacterial grow so you don't want to add it at the same time you add Waste-Away/Eco-Balance because it may cause the bacteria to bloom.

The products do not do anything "nasty" to the bacteria in the tank or in the bottle. Did your water ever turn cloudy?

How often to dose one or the other depends on many factors - mostly how much you feed and how often. Generally we recommend add one or the other every 2-3 weeks. Dose Waste-Away 3 times and then the 4th time dose Eco-Balance instead of Waste-Away. If you have low nitrate and phosphate and no algae or cyanobacteria problems then you can consider dosing once a month. Every tank is different so you have to adjust until you find a protocol that works best for your situation.

 

DrTim, Thank you for the reply and the explanation. Yes I forgot to say NOT it my post. The water never turned cloudy.

Coasterofluv, nothing had happened I just did a really thorough cleaning on the tank and the sump and fragged a bunch of my corals. I don't think the event was related to the products or the cleaning but I just wanted to bounce it off of someone. This is my first time with RTN and I'm freaking out about it. Trying to figure anything I can about why it happened.

 

You're welcome. I think the RTN is just a coincidence. Since you never had cloudy water you did not have a bacteria bloom. Have you added something new to the tank recently?

 

The last thing I added to the tank was 3 Bartlett Anthias but that was over a month ago and they are doing great. I haven't added corals in almost a year

 

Here are my Testing results

Hello Mr. Maynard,

I just got your results back and here they are for you. They still need to test for copper I guess they were having a calibration error with their equipment.

Parameter
Test Summary
Result
Ammonia (NH3-4)
Good
0
Nitrite (NO2)
Good
0.006
Nitrate (NO3)
Good
1.8
Phosphate (PO4)
Good
0.06
Silica (Sio2-3)
High
0.5
Potassium (K)
Low
132
Ionic Calcium (Ca)
Good
188
Boron (B)
NA
Molybdenum (Mo)
High
0.3
Strontium (Sr)
Good
8.4
Magnesium (Mg)
High
1400
Iodine (I)
High
0.11
Copper (Cu)
NA
Alkalinity (meq/L)
Low
2.3
Total Calcium (Ca)
High
500
Iron (Fe)
NA

Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.05 mg/L
Tested Result: 0 mg/L

(GOOD) Your ammonia level is within the recommended range. We recommend staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/L is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected. See also: Parameters

Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.1 mg/L
Tested Result: 0.006 mg/L

(GOOD) Your nitrite level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected.

Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 25 mg/L
Tested Result: 1.8 mg/L

(GOOD) Your nitrate level is within the recommended range. Be sure to maintain reasonable stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.

Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.25 mg/L
Tested Result: 0.06 mg/L

(GOOD) Your phosphate level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/L.

Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.5 mg/L
Tested Result: 0.5 mg/L

(HIGH) Your silica level is too high. We recommend that you use a silica specific R/O membrane in addition to deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/L may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium.

Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 – 450 mg/L
Tested Result: 132 mg/L

(LOW) Your potassium level is too low. We recommend performing a partial water change, and possibly adding a commercial additive containing potassium. Potassium is rapidly depleted from aquarium water by several plant and animal metabolic processes. Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for cellular respiration, as well as being an important nutrient for coral zooxanthellae and macro algae.

Ionic Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 180 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 100 – 300 mg/L
Tested Result: 188 mg/L

(GOOD) Your ionic calcium level is within the recommended range. We recommend that you continue with your current schedule of calcium additions. Calcium is critical to healthy coral skeletal growth, and many other biological processes. Maintenance of calcium levels that are at or near seawater values is an important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium.

Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 3 – 6 mg/L
Tested Result: NA mg/L

Not tested

Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.01 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.12 mg/L
Tested Result: 0.3 mg/L

(HIGH) Your molybdenum level is too high. Molybdenum is found in many common additives and at highly elevated levels in most salt mixes and so a vast majority of reef tanks demonstrate a level 10 to 50 times higher than natural levels. 0.12 mg/L is the upper toxicity limit for Molybdenum, the point at which negative effects can begin to manifest themselves. You should suspend the use of any additives containing molybdenum. If your level is significantly higher than acceptable you may benefit from a partial water change to reduce this level, though your salt mix may be a contributor to the elevated level itself. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria.

Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 5 – 12 mg/L
Tested Result: 8.4 mg/L

(GOOD) Your strontium level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.

Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 1100 – 1400 mg/L
Tested Result: 1400 mg/L

(HIGH) Your magnesium level is too high. We recommend reducing or suspending any additives containing magnesium until the level comes down. You may also wish to perform a partial water change. Magnesium is critical to the water buffering system, any photosynthetic processes, and to marine invertebrates in general. Only sodium and chloride are found in greater proportions. Higher than normal levels are known to produce damaging effects on some organisms, encourage algae blooms, and destabilize the calcium levels and the buffering capacity of the water.

Iodine (I)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.03 – 0.09 mg/L
Tested Result: 0.11 mg/L

(HIGH) Your iodine level is too high. We recommend a reduction in chemical additives containing iodine. You may also wish to reduce the feeding of any shellfish-type, or red-algae based feeds, and increase protein skimming. Iodine is known to be required by many soft corals, marine macro algae, and is a component of many of the colorful pigments in stony corals. Iodide is a strong oxidizer however, and an overabundance can damage coral tissues, and has been implicated in algal blooms.

Copper (Cu)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.03 mg/L
Tested Result: NA mg/L

Not tested
Alkalinity (meq/L)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/L
Acceptable Range: 2.5 – 5 meq/L
Tested Result: 2.3 meq/L

(LOW) Your alkalinity level is too low. We recommend the addition of a commercial buffer designed to raise alkalinity. You may also wish to perform a partial water change to help correct this issue. Maintaining correct alkalinity levels is critical to corals, as well as any shelled invertebrates, including snails, clams, etc. It is also crucial in maintaining appropriate pH and calcium levels. This is one of the most important parameters for the maintenance of marine aquariums.

Total Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 – 450 mg/L
Tested Result: 500 mg/L

(HIGH) Your calcium level is too high. We recommend that you suspend any calcium additions until the level stabilizes. If you have a calcium reactor, it may need to be adjusted. You may also need to adjust the alkalinity of the water. Maintaining the correct calcium levels is critical to the growth of corals and coralline algae. Fish also require calcium to maintain their health. High levels of calcium can cause dangerous fluctuations in other important elements, as well as in the alkalinity and pH of the water.

Iron (Fe)
Natural Seawater Value: tbd. mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0 – 0.01 mg/L
Tested Result: NA mg/L

Not tested

 

It is hard to say what is happening. As the test results state you magnesium and calcium are on the high side as is the molybdenum and your alkalinity is a little low. Is just of these 'the' problem, are all the problem or is it a combination of them?

To be safe I would get these water quality parameters back into range.