PH Question

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by DrewGritz, Mar 17, 2009.

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  1. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    The brown specs on the sand, rock and glass are most likely diatoms.. The most simplest of algaes.... Typically starts in your tank within the first 48 hrs of being set up. They will go on for awhile until your tank is "mature", sometimes being obtrusive and overwhelming and eventually being a slight nuisence as you wipe down the viewable sides of glass.
    Detritus is simple organic matter that is more of a khaki or light brown color. It is made up of feces, left over broken down food and other various wastes. Essentially it is a nutrient pile and a NO3 and PO4 factory...

    Adding more sand is a tricky thing... Not only will it cloud up your tank something nasty and be a real mess you have the potential to smother the existing life in the sand bed. It is best to do small portions at a time, and work the sand into the sand bed, not just pour it on top!!

    Good luck and happy reefing!
     
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  3. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

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    Ph really means little its just a indicator of the presences or lack of carbonates , Like the carbonates are used to off set acid or tank heartburn and that is cause from excess acids and like with Rolaids a good complete buffer will off set the acids and the PH will stabilize ..


    So you need to get a good DKH test kit and a buffer get a powdered buffer and save money.. and for get about Ph just keep the DKH or carbonates up to par the Ph will take care of its self. Unless you use tight fitting glass tank covers then thats another problem..and nothing will help that but tossing the covers in the trash..
     
  4. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    I beg to differ Tangster, it is very possible to have a alkalinity on par or even elevated and still have a low pH... Elevated buffering capacity does not always equate to elevated pH.... Why else do you think Seachem now markets products for this exact same issue...Ca and alk are perfect, pH is low.??
    A tank with a high bioload that is filled with organics will have a low pH regardless of how high the alkalinity is!

    Happy buffering!
     
  5. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

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    Because people like yourself will buy them :) I bet I can do more with a air stone and fresh air then the products will.
     
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  6. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    Nice burn attempt there Tangster! If you have read any of my posts you would know that I personally use a 2 part and kalk and recommend them frequently....
    In your post you said to increase alkalinity, you mentioned nothing of fresh air or an airstone...
    I never recommended that particular Seachem product, I said it existed. Unfortunately tanks with a heavy bio load will always have lowered pHs that all the airstones in the world will not remedy. Sometimes organics are the cause of a depressed pH not lack of O2.

    Happy reefing!
     
  7. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

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    Well some can't handle a short answer but Ph is nothing more then a way to measure the amount or concentrations of of the Hydrogen atom H+
    The scale runs from 0 to 14 O is pure acid 14 is pure base or alkaline and neutral is 7 the scale is logarithmic and that meas a ph of say 6 is ten times more acidic then a reading of 7 or neutral. And that is all Ph means . Pure and simple

    I was not trying to burn anyone and tell me what the excess organics create that cause the lower readings ?
    Acids and then the extra denitryfing bacteria that are needed to handle that excess bio load and then they die off and decline in their numbers and the O2 really fast and then when the O2 is depleted more and the CO'2 increase as do sulfides and that decreases the carbonate as it places more demand for them to off set the acids.

    Ph simply acts as a Gas gauge in a car it just a indicator and tells you whats being consumed . But not if its gas or diesel or high or low octane . Ph is nothing more then a indicator or of amount of carbonates on hand to off set the acids back to a base .

    Now if the tank is nasty then all that carbon waste is breaking down and causeing the added demand on the carbonates to off set the acids . But I bet if they took that same water and put some in a Jar and addedair then the oxgen would force out and replace the CO2 and then the Hydrogen atoms would increase the Ph reading .. As I said like the gas gauge in a car it just tells you that you have some left .
     
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  9. tigermike74

    tigermike74 Panda Puffer

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    Well said Tang. My pH is 8.6 and my dKH is 14 and everyone is happy. Maybe I should cut my fuge time down a bit, I have it on from 8pm to 6am. Maybe I'll cut it down an hour to see if I can get my pH to drop a bit naturally.
     
  10. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

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    At 8.5 thats also fine I myself would not worry about that at all. Just means the oxygen is neat total saturation from the plants . I would time my fuge lights for them to come on hr before the tank lights go off and then have the fuge to go off about a hr after the tank lights up that will give the main tank a little time to use the oxygen to off set the nights CO2 . until the tank photosyntheses kicks in . They key is consistency of the Ph not the number . About the only thing Ph effects in and of its own value is sudden large fluctuations as that will stress and even kill fish. Mine runs 8.0 avareage moring noon or night per a meter not a liquid test kit , If anyone uses them to keep tabs on ph then its a guess at best and not worth the price of the kits.. ou keep the DKH correct then the Ph will be there when needed seen or unseen.
     
  11. PharmrJohn

    PharmrJohn The Dude

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    As usual, Roger is correct. Consistancy with pH can be maintained through dKH. However, Ca and Mg are in the mix as well. Different aquarists keep different numbers, but the standard Mg:Ca ratio is 3.25 to 1. I maintain a Ca of 480, Mg of 1500 and a dKh of between 12 and 14. pH has always followed at 8.4. Here is what I consider required reading for aquarists. Yet another article to go through. If it isn't clear, or you need further explanation, PM me and I'll go through it. Knowledge is power and this is a very good article to get a solid understanding of.

    A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
     
  12. tigermike74

    tigermike74 Panda Puffer

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    I keep my mix about the same as you do PharmrJohn. I also have an hour overlap on each end in regards to when my fuge light turns on and off. My pH has been rock solid at 8.6 during the day. Only a couple of my snails seem to be slightly distressed, they tend to just sit at the bottom of the tank. The other 8 wander about like usual.