PH keeps dropping

Discussion in 'Water Chemistry' started by JetEngineMech, Jul 10, 2008.

to remove this notice and enjoy 3reef content with less ads. 3reef membership is free.

  1. Bogie

    Bogie Snowflake Eel

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,350
    Location:
    CT
    Not trying to hijack this thread but how do you use the epsom salt? Do you just put a small amount in the sump to dissolve or what?

    Thanks

    Mix the epsom salt in a cup of RO/DI or tank water, then add to sump or tank. Only about 1 tablespoon of epsom salt will easily dissolve in a cup of RO/DI water with some stirring. Adding about 10 tablespoons of epsom salt dissolved in water should increase your mag level up by about 100 ppm in a 150-160 gallon water system (figure 90 gal + partially filled 75 gal sump + 10 gal refugium = ~150 gal). Always test your parameters.



    Really? Wow, I'm learning quite a bit here.

    Now, do all of those need to be checked daily once they've reached their optimum levels?

    I test my Mag level every time after I check my Alk levels, maybe every 7-10 days. You may have to check more often depending on what works for you.
     
  2. Click Here!

  3. R34dawn

    R34dawn Ocellaris Clown

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,464
    Location:
    Garden Creek,VA
    +1 on what wildreef suggest magnesium chloride is what you need to use, instead of the magnesium sulfate. you would have to make so many water change there is not funny to reduce the amount of sulfide left in the surface of you lr sand etc. cheap measures become costly in the long run
     
  4. wildreef

    wildreef Stylophora

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Louisville, KY ( derby town )
    As I say ^
     
  5. Bogie

    Bogie Snowflake Eel

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,350
    Location:
    CT
    Can you back that up without impersonating someone like Dr. Howell again?

    Remember this?

    Your quote wildreef:
    "I concur with your thoughts on this Chad .
    To those whom thought this to be "personal" ( it was NOT ).

    It was our goal to shed some light on this proplexed suject of all the methods.

    And with Dr. Howell and his experiance in chemical analisis could help
    all of us on 3reef. and maybe provide a "deeper more chemicaly insight" to all this.

    I'm sorry to say i'm some what ashamed of some of the childish things that other people have done and posted.
    It was for ALL of our benifit.. NOT just one.

    We me/wareagle were reminded to keep our post "on subject" / and not ridicule any one.
    It was our passion to seek definitive ansewers , how ever all that has been said and how certain people reacted to this thread , I will reluctantly have to say IM DONE.

    I and wareagle saught ansewers "chemicaly" and did NOT intend nor did we want to damage anyones "credibility", we saught truth, nothing more."

    ^ On this thread not long ago.
    http://www.3reef.com/forums/water-chemistry/why-not-use-borax-baking-soda-49811.html

    I can't believe you still even have the never to post anything on this forum after getting caught out in that huge lie that you and wareagle made up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  6. wildreef

    wildreef Stylophora

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Louisville, KY ( derby town )
    Once again boogie ya wouldint know truth if fell outa the sky ,landed on your face and started to wiggle.

    ya prescribe a "certain" method, ya might let a person know the affects it could have and let the novice/bigginer know the whole deal , ya too busy chasing some one elses tail to tell the diffrence.

    Now ive only tried to prescribe and let peeps that dont know the whole deal here.
    Ive researched it alot, ya might try that your self

    be careful as the "evidence" is not clearly in yet.. ya might end up eating those words...
     
  7. Bogie

    Bogie Snowflake Eel

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,350
    Location:
    CT
    Found this so far on OZREEF.
    Maybe you have personally seen a tank that crashed from sulfates from adding Epsom Salt to increase Mag levels? If so please post. And don't just google a pic of a tank with a blacksand bed and say it was sulfates that caused that. A REAL STORY, REAL PROOF, NOT MADE UP LIKE LAST TIME, and just maybe I'll change my sig, or you could take your dignity and leave.

    D.I.Y. Additive
    Here is a nice little magnesium additive secret, one that I am sure many reef aquarium additive companies don't want you to hear about, Epsom Salt. Yep, the stuff that your grandmother uses for tired muscles, aches, pains and a mild laxative has a use in your reef tank. Epsom Salt, or MgSO4.7H2O, is easily available from the local chemist, pharmacy or drug store (depending on what you call it) and in some cases a supermarket. A half kilogram box should not cost more than a couple of dollars, which sure beats twenty or more for a commercial additive.

    The dosing rate is simply: to increase the magnesium concentration by 100 ppm, add 1 gram of Epsom Salt per litre of water. As with anything change with the water parameters, take it slowly, and any sensitive corals will soon show effects when things are altered too fast for them. The following is the system that can be use to add magnesium using Epsom Salt.

    Calculate the total system volume, including tank, sump, and other water containing equipment. Don't forget that rock and sand takes up water volume and that tanks are not filled right to the top.
    Measure the magnesium level currently of the water, determine what level is being aimed for, and calculate the concentration increase that is required to reach this level. Note that natural sea water has a level of around 1,300 ppm. If the increase required is more than 200 ppm then consider doing the increase in several steps over several days.
    To obtain the mass of Epsom Salt to add in grams, multiply the system water volume (in litres) by the dosing rate (1 gram per litre), then by the concentration increase (ppm) and divide by 100 (ppm). As an equation this looks like this:
    Mass Epsom Salt (grams) = 1 (grams/litre) * Water Volume (litre) * Magnesium Concentration Increase (ppm) / 100 (ppm)
    Weight or measure out the mass of Epsom Salt required. Because this is on a mass basis, either easy access to an accurate weighing scale or an one off access is required. If one is available, then just weigh it out as required. If not, then this be solved by using a small measuring cup, spoon or plastic container and determine how much one measure of Epsom Salt from this weighs. Be careful if the type of Epsom Salt used is changed, as it's density can change and therefore the correct mass will not be measuring out in the future.
    Take out about a litre of water from the reef tank into a plastic container and add the required mass of Epsom Salt to the water. Stir until it is fully dissolved. Increase or decrease the dissolving water volume as required for the amount to be added.
    Pour magnesium water into the tank in an area of high water flow and turbulence. This will allow it to be mixed in rapidly with the water. In front of a pump outlet or inlet is a good place for this. Avoid pouring into areas where it will come into contact with corals, invertebrate etc before mixing in correctly.
    If a over 200 ppm concentration increase is required, then wait until the next day before adding the next amount.
    Test the water several hours later, if not the next day, to check the magnesium level. Note that it is not a good idea to check it straight away, as it takes time for it to mix in and equilibrate.
    But will using this type of additive could cause any long-term effects or problems? Note that the magnesium exists as a sulphate salt in Epsom Salt, in a one to one ratio. If Epsom Salt is added to the water to increase the magnesium levels then there will also be an increase in the sulphate levels. To determine if this will be much of a problem, the various species concentrations in natural water have to be considered:
    Magnesium, Mg = 1,300 ppm
    Sulphur, S = 900 ppm
    Chlorine, Cl = 19,500 ppm

    By a rough approximation, it can be assume that all the sulphur present is found as sulphate, SO42-. Note that both the magnesium and sulphate exist in comparative concentrations, around 1,000 ppm. Therefore for a given increase in the magnesium concentration achieved by using Epsom Salt, a comparative increase in the sulphate concentration will also occur. In contrast if the magnesium additive magnesium chloride (MgCl2) is used the effect will be smaller. This results from the factor of fifteen higher concentration of chloride over that of magnesium.

    Now for as how this applies to our reef aquariums, I think that the increase in sulphate concentrations should not cause any problems. Low magnesium levels cause more, and the amount of Epsom Salt required to maintain the magnesium concentrations once they are up to the correct level is small. But having said that, it is better to strive for the conditions that our system inhabitants are adapted to and have evolved in. If a source of magnesium chloride that is not expensive and can be afforded can be found then go ahead and use it. Although because of the ease of access, price and simplicity of use, Epsom Salt is a great place to start, or even end with, maintaining magnesium concentrations.


    whole article here: OZ REEF - Magnesium Additive
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  8. Click Here!

  9. wildreef

    wildreef Stylophora

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Louisville, KY ( derby town )
    Is that a "read and repeat" ? i doubt any "one" will call you on that.
    ( you'll have to clarify huh ? )
    Thats one persons "input" ya might ask the educaton level or the chemical analysis of such.
    And ya might continue research / reading the net.

    Also you and others ( might ) ask of the education levels of these methods / ratio's etc,

    As well you and others have been "called out" and thus declined these diffrences in private after Pm's have been sent,
    (yet declined and no replys )
    So much much for being a man i suppose, as so stated every where.

    I asked for an explanation chemicly, ya'll basicly rubbed it off as nothing more than BS.

    ya dont like to be questioned'.. ya worry to much of that "credibility" .

    Basicly I HAD to do your home work for ya ,,, and ya dont like it.. when it's "questioned"
    And heaven forbid some one questions "some ones" seemingly greek god status"

    And further more ya might try to explain the "adverse" affects "if" any and FULLY if such is required. ( at the sake of a few dollars ? )
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  10. Tangster

    Tangster 3reef Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Location:
    Va/Ct
    There is no product know to man that can just be added to keep levels of ca ad Mag in one. Alk and Ca and Mag are all used at different rates by every tank. You need to get a Ca Alk and mag kit test the water then add the needed elements .
    Thats why with the buffer and Ca I use and make I never add the Strontium and Mag and or anything that can be tested for and added separately. My Cal. will help with a little Mag but not enough I still have to add the magnesium after you test and adjust the elements a few time you get a feel for how much .
    Its like flying blind via IFO the test kits are your gages and or instruments use them and trust them and add what they say you need to add the labels on any product is just a base line and following them will only get you so far .

    With any tank that is alive and growing in that any level of elements you are adding this month will not be enough a few months as demand increases from animal growth and demand .
     
  11. ShrimpSkin

    ShrimpSkin Bristle Worm

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    132
    Location:
    Parksville, BC
    Wait.. wait... the whole Dr. Howell thing was made up? BWAHAHAHAHA! Guess some people just need some attention. Sorry I missed the end of that thread going to have to go back and read it.

    There is a lot of great advice on this board man, looks like you have a nice list of things you need. Like everyone is saying Mag is consumed differently in all tanks. You should start to get a feel for what your tank consumes as you do tests this should help you with your timing as far as dosing goes.
     
  12. Jason McKenzie

    Jason McKenzie Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC,Canada
    This is another thread with great information.

    But is about to be closed do to a few individuals. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
    So chill out


    J