Live rock, cured vs uncured and quantity?

Discussion in 'Live Rock' started by BB23, Mar 7, 2007.

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  1. BB23

    BB23 Astrea Snail

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    Currently i have reached a conundrum type status. I have researched online whether cured live rock vs uncured is better or not. It seems to me that all cured means is that the rock is cycled through and cleaned off of excess materials, etc. But in that process dont all the cool life forms straight from the ocean get "cleaned/cleared out" of the rock. Would'nt everbody want uncured live rock for the sake of having the cool life forms that once presided in the ocean (now to be transferred in your tank? I'm sure there have been many posts like this (sorry if it seems redundant).
    My other question was how much live rock do you think i need for a 150 gallon, trickle filter, bioball system within a 20 long sump, 220 (gallon rated) coralife protein skimmer. 2 actinic and 2 super actinic lights (48 inch lights) And currently there is nothing in the tank besides a few pieces of lava rock. (we started completely anew) And were planning on keeping this as a reef tank.

    Overall my predicament is we ordered 60 lbs of live rock for the tank, how much more do we need for a nice environment for corals in general?

    Thnx so much,

    BB23
     
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  3. glampka

    glampka Coral Banded Shrimp

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    Usual rule of thumb is 1 - 2 lbs/gal. How much you'll actually use depends on QUALITY of the rock. Porous rock is much better than dense rock. IMO cured rock is better since you don't worry about the die off. Curing rock is a bit of a chore and takes time. Even if you use cured rock, you still need to do some minor curing since there is always some die-off in transit. You get die off in either case.
     
  4. chrisANDbarb

    chrisANDbarb Fire Worm

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    first i would get the lava rock out of the tank. it can contain metals and you dont want metals in your tank. the old rule on live rock was 1 to 2 pounds per gal. but now a days people are using less, more like 1lbs per gal or less and thats proving plenty for bio-filtration.

    cured verses uncured is up to you. cured generally costs more and you will still have to cycle your tank just like with uncured. the die off they talk about with live rock is stuff like sponges and algae. you will get some bugs that die but most stuff makes it through the curing process.

    if your going to get uncured and cure it in your tank dont add any sand to the tank because you will get a ton of stuff falling out of the rock. with out sand you can easily see it and clean it up. if you want sand you can add it after the rock has cured
     
  5. coral reefer

    coral reefer Giant Squid

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    The cured rock basically is rock that has come from the ocean to the pet shops! From their, it goes through a cycling process where some of the bacteria, and living organisms have died due to shipping etc. It is inevitable, and will happen no matter what!!!
    Uncured live rock is rock that has not had a chance to cycle through and have the dead/decaying organisms fall off or be removed from the rock! Therefore, if you were to purchase the uncured live rock and put it in your tank, basically the rock would cycle through your tank instead of the pet shops and will cause a negative effect to your water and possibly livestock in your tank!!! The die off will cause your ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate levels to spike and increase phosphate and CO2 levels in your water spurring microalgae outbreak as well!
    IMO cured rock is the way to go as many of the dye off will re grow due to the population not totally being deceased! You are just forgoing the cycling of the rock by chosing cured over uncured rock!!
    Hope this corrects your assumption about uncured rock being better than cured!
     
  6. Otty

    Otty Giant Squid

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    +2 on that one, good answer!
     
  7. coral reefer

    coral reefer Giant Squid

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    The problem with that is that you have all this live rock in your tank without sand, then when it comes time to add the sand, especially if you have alot of live rock is you have to disturb the live rock set-up and also run the risk of debris, cloudiness and sand getting all over your live rock and in your water column!
    I understand what you are trying to say, however the die off contains mostly
    microscopic and very minute organisms that can be removed through the proper water movement suspending the die off in the water column to eventually be removed by your skimmer!!! Also many organisms in your tank will feed on this die off!
    IMO, put the sand in, then go with cured live rock to decrease water parameter problems and the headache associated with curing live rock-leave it to the LPS! You will be glad you did!
     
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  9. chrisANDbarb

    chrisANDbarb Fire Worm

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    not if its trapped in the sand;D

    and a lot of it will just rot. whether its eaten or just laying there to rot its still in the tank. i wouldn't want to start a tank depending on bugs to eat the detritus left behind after curing/cycling.

    pull the rock out, clean the detritus out of the tank, put in you sand then add the rock back.

    ive set up a few tanks, ive never set one up that didnt get cloudy. its going to happen no matter what you do.

    start off clean, dont depend on bugs to clean up after you. what they eat they poo right back out and it stays in the tank. they only transform poo into more poo;D
     
  10. coral reefer

    coral reefer Giant Squid

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    It is more than just bugs that we are dealing with! In our reefs all over the world, their is sand rock and living bacteria, worms, polychaetes, hetero and autotrpohic organisms to break down the things that die!!! Even mammals such as whales will be reduced to bones only in a matter of weeks!
    All I am saying is that this dye off is going to be consumed whether it is suspended in your water column for the skimmer to remove or filter feeders etc. Or advection/diffusion into our sand bed for other living organisms to remove! It doesn't really get trapped in the sand!
    I just feel that the purchase of cured rock is more beneficial and practical. I don't know of any pet shops around here that sell or have uncured rock as the smell associated with it and the lack of fellow reefers that desire uncured rock is so small that it isn't worth the aggrevation!
    That is all I am saying...
     
  11. BB23

    BB23 Astrea Snail

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    Thanks for all the explanation, it really helps.

    peace

    Brad
     
  12. chrisANDbarb

    chrisANDbarb Fire Worm

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    i used the term "bugs" because i didnt feel like typing out every organism that will eat decaying matter. my point is, why try to process decaying matter when you can remove it. these bugs will process it but they dont remove it. if you start out a tank and allow the die off to accumulate, bugs will come in to eat it but they will produce waste also. the waste never leaves the tank

    its never removed untill you remove the sand