Inverts (and fish) that should NOT be purchased unless you are an EXPERT!

There are certain species I won't keep in my tank, because I believe it's wrong to remove them from the ocean. I think it's a personal choice.

Many coral/fish that don't seem to live long are often because the aquarium keeper isn't knowledgeable enough.

With regards to flower pot coral, I've had one for about 2 years now. When my tank crashed it was about 95% dead and now has come back better than ever. So it is possible to keep those happy and alive.

 

or, we could continue the conversation within the relevant thread... I'd like to hear her response rather than you trying to shut her down...

Anyway, I want to respond to this:
Its the only way forward, the more we care for them, the easier they are to keep

I don't agree. It is not the only way forward. Difficult to care for creatures do not need to be available to the ignorant masses in order to move forward.

Yes, ignorant masses prompted the breeding of mandarins, but it was no novice home aquariast that did bred them.

Repetition is not what makes difficult to care for creatures easier to keep. It makes it easier for you but for the next fellow. There is no advancement there.

Just because some yahoo keeps difficult creature X for Y years doesn't mean diddly. Unless that yahoo has kept a log of relevant data to explain what makes his/her system unique, controlled experiment, or different to the betterment of difficult creature X. That's how you move forward. Careful record keeping and observation in a controlled environment with an established baseline for comparison.

"I kept one for 2 years" or "it dies IME" is not advancement of anything to the hobby.

 

I have no intention of starting a fight, and in respect of is hobby, I have the utmost respect for the people in this discussion. That said, allow me to say my piece and move on.

Mortality is a measure of deaths in a population over a fixed period of time. I'm not sure "normal lifespan" is a useful concept. According to Peter Sale in The Ecology of Fishes on Coral Reefs, the mortality for a type of surgeonfish is roughly 20% a day over the first 12 days of life ignoring predation. That means roughly 5% of those who avoid being eaten are still alive 12 days later.

As to those predators, the same source includes evidence that coral reef fish make up about 35% of the diet of oceangoing fish. Add to that the reef fish who eat smaller reef fish and it makes sense all of a sudden why fish pump out millions of fry.

It may make sense to try to compare the life expectancy at capture with the life expectancy of the same fish absent capture. I don't have those numbers. To expect that most fish on the reef live out a normal, uneaten life though is very optimistic.

As for experienced reefkeepers trying the harder things at the risk of killing them, with all due respect to those who disagree, everything but the water, the rock, and my clownfish in my current tank was considered impossible to keep when I built my first tank in 1980. If we're going to tie moral guilt to those who took the risks, then we all have blood on our hands for enjoying the spoils of their efforts.

We should all behave responsably. Some risks are an acceptable part of responsible reefkeeping.

 

I know, I mentioned that I stopped buying them because I wasn't having any luck personally. ( not that it should be added to the list). I kept a flower put for more than a year and a half before it started dying slowly.

I know of many people that are successful keeping them. Just not me so far:-/

 

I was just responding to the OP and giving my experience because it was on his list. Not you!

 

WOW! It looks AWESOME! Again Thanks for the tips Vinny, you've been a great help. I thought it was closing up it's polyps when fed because it didn't want what I was giving it, LOL! The other corals I have OPEN UP when they like what they're being fed

 

well said!

 

"It may make sense to try to compare the life expectancy at capture with the life expectancy of the same fish absent capture. I don't have those numbers." {THIS is what I was refering to with the 1 out of 10 survival rate. Apparently my wording was unclear}

"We should all behave responsably. Some risks are an acceptable part of responsible reefkeeping.[/QUOTE]"


Yes, we should all behave responsably. That is the point of this thread. Initially I did say that these animals should not be kept at all because I was angry and venting. NOW this post says nothing about EXPERIENCED reef keepers not making the effort. However, unless you really know what you're doing, these animals should not be kept due to poor suvival rate. Peredhil's post says it best.

(Why didn't this quote properly?)

 

"


Yes, we should all behave responsably. That is the point of this thread. Initially I did say that these animals should not be kept at all because I was angry and venting. NOW this post says nothing about EXPERIENCED reef keepers not making the effort. However, unless you really know what you're doing, these animals should not be kept due to poor suvival rate. Peredhil's post says it best.

(Why didn't this quote properly?)[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying. I have no dispute with anything you said, but in the absence of evidence, I think this is an Internet statistic.

 

Most reef tanks are either too clean or too small to be able to keep rainfordi gobies. I kept one for many years in a 35g though.