High Calcium & Low PH !??!

Discussion in 'ASAP' started by bc219, Nov 1, 2008.

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  1. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    +1 Trent, thats what I was trying to say.......
     
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  3. lunatik_69

    lunatik_69 Giant Squid

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    As Otty has mentioned, I dont see Mag. Mag is very important when trying to balance out Cal and Alk/Dkh. Considering that I dont know where your Mag level is, if you want to lower Cal, you need to dose more Alk/Dkh. Be very careful how much you dose, do it over time and always test BEFORE you dose again. By dosing Alk/Dkh, that will raise your PH up to a point. Depending on the corals you have, you could also do nothing and let the corals consume the Cal. Another factor that will lower your PH level is Co2. If your like me, my house is always closed up b/c of the a/c. So my PH rarely passes 8.10. When I open the house up( like now b/c of the awesome weather ), my PH shoots up to 8.3-8.4. Once I close the house up again, the PH drops to 7.9-8.0.

    I like to keep my numbers as follows;
    Mag........1400-1500
    Cal..........420-500
    Dkh.........10-14
    Nh3..........0
    No2..........0
    No3..........0
    Po4..........0
    PH...........8.0-8.3
    SG...........1.025
    Temp........77-79

    Hope this helps. Luna
     
  4. Otty

    Otty Giant Squid

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    Then you need one of these Luna: Energy Recovery Ventilators
     
  5. lunatik_69

    lunatik_69 Giant Squid

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    Hey buddy, Im assuming that you have one, out of curiousity(sp) how much do they go for? Do they "pump" in outside air into the house? Luna
     
  6. Otty

    Otty Giant Squid

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    Rayjay does and he is the one that turned me onto it. I am doing the calculations and will be routing vents for my install by then end of the year. Will have to wait until the knee feels a little better before I put pressure on it. The cost depends on the cfm you want. With your climate you will need a ERV and it has a 85% to 90% transfer of cooling and heat to incoming air. So it brings the outside air in and cools or heats it then distributes it in the house. Pretty nifty little gadget for air tight houses.
     
  7. bc219

    bc219 Millepora

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    I will be ordering a magnesium test kit today, as of right now I cannot test it.

    Yesterday I did a water change, as scheduled, 15gal of 75gal (with 50-75lb lr). A few minutes ago I just tested the calcium level from two different areas of the tank (not including the original test location) and I still get 640, and pH is 8.0 (the lights have only been on for 2hrs though).

    I have been reading a lot on the baking soda raising pH thing and have come to the conclusion that adding baking soda (without cooking it) will raise the pH.

    I am wondering why this has brought on such disagreement by others?
     
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  9. unclejed

    unclejed Whip-Lash Squid

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    Yes, yes, baking soda has long been used by aquarists to not only raise PH but also maintain it. When adding your Calc. simply add the 1 teaspoon of soda per every 20 gal. of your total water volume mixed in pure fresh water and it is a great buffer. The popular (expensive) products, Reef Builder, Seabuffer etc. are no more than Bicarbonate of Soda (baking soda) packaged to make you think it is the supplement to regulate your PH. Once you determine the Alkalinity fall off rate you can buffer accordingly. The cal. thing is odd. I once kept constantly getting a reading of 700 ppm on 2 tanks. I took 2 samples (1 from each tank) to LFS and they got 340 and 380 I think it was. At that time I used conditioned tap water (not the best move) and we determined something was throwing off the test, I don't know, maybe have LFS check yours, I can't remember if you did or not.
     
  10. bc219

    bc219 Millepora

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    I haven't had them check it but I will now for sure. I was wondering if it was possibly my test kit? I am using the API reef kit one. Yes yes I know, I should be using salifert or elos. Next time I will not go the el-cheapo route.

    So what to buy? Salifert or Elos? Right now on marinedepot Elos is cheaper due to the Euro vs. US dollar, it's only a few dollars but I'm always up for saving a buck. I need to order this magnesium test today, so, what do you all think? What brand?
     
  11. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    I use Tropic Marin, which always seem to fare well when compared to Salifert and others, sometimes the Ca/Mg tests can be a little tough to see the color change but after a while you get used to it. Also they seem to be fairly easy to find as Salifert sometimes is out of stock.....
    As far as the baking soda, I will post an article from Randy Holmes-Farley in a moment in regards to baking it to achieve a pH INCREASE.
    Also, in regards to companies and their supplements, you need to take them w/ a grain of salt... Seachem's Reef Advance Magnesium is just MgSO4 with NaCl added. This is a poor, ionically unbalanced supplement. You would have to add sooooo much NaCl to balance it out it wouldn't be worth it. AND you would be MUCH cheaper buying Epsom salt which is just MgSO4. The most commonly used Mg supplemtal ratio is usually 2x1 MgCl to MgSO4, if one was to use the Seachems for example would eventually have too much sulfate ions and not nearly enough Cl ions... Many pH increase concoctions are sodium bicarbonate and borate and the like and they typically add too much akalinity in proportion to the increase in pH. When you have a full reef tank with levels that need to be pretty precise, it isn't always a good thing to increase you alk like that, hence the BAKED baking soda. Can you use uncooked baking soda, yes. But not nearly as effectively as BAKED baking soda. OR you can increase the O2 levels and help drive off the CO2, which will also increase pH. Many people have noticed a significant pH drop when they have company over all standing around the tank gawking and breathing heavily.:)
     
  12. Dr.Fragenstein

    Dr.Fragenstein Panda Puffer

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    Solutions to High pH Problems



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some solutions to pH problems are peculiar to a specific cause, such as adding vinegar directly to limewater, or using less limewater than normal. Some general solutions, however, are frequently effective. Water changes are generally not an effective long-term solution to any pH problems. My recommendations on how to deal with high pH problems are detailed below.

    Adding a buffer is a very poor way to control high pH. The best option in this regard is to add straight baking soda, but it lowers pH only slightly and provides a large boost to alkalinity. I showed experimentally in a previous article that adding enough baking soda to lower artificial seawater's pH by 0.04 pH units raises alkalinity by 0.5 meq/L (1.4 dKH).

    The most benign way to reduce high pH is to aerate the water more. Whether the aquarium looks well-aerated or not, and regardless of its oxygen level, if its pH is above 8.5 and its alkalinity is below 4 meq/L, then the aquarium is not fully equilibrated with carbon dioxide in the air (if its alkalinity is much higher than 4 meq/L (11 dKH), then that may also require correction). Equilibrating carbon dioxide can be much more difficult than equilibrating oxygen. Air contains very little carbon dioxide (about 350 ppm) relative to oxygen (210,000 ppm). Consequently, a lot more air needs to be driven through the water to introduce the same amount of carbon dioxide as oxygen. Perfect aeration will solve nearly any high pH problem, and will rarely cause any problem of its own.
    The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners Part 3: pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
    This is an older article, I can't find the one I was thinking about, but when I find it I will post it.